5 ms·

This is hard. Nothing about this is easy. Moving forward, we should all work to make workplaces where everyone can feel wanted. I don't think Race or Gender ma

This is hard. Nothing about this is easy. Moving forward, we should all work to make workplaces where everyone can feel wanted. I don't think Race or Gender matters and I would not want to work somewhere where it does. I want to work in a place where the caliber of my work is what matters, not the color of my skin or my genitals. This is a long battle that may never be won, but it doesn't mean we should stop fighting.

r00fus 12y ago
I agree with you although I would phrase it differently (a la Star Trek's IDIC): diversity is a form of strength. In a situation with strong institutional bias towards reduced diversity, it just feels wrong to me.
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  Is there any evidence that diversity based on racial appearance translates into business strength? I'm guessing that two random, say, Ivy League grads are more similar than two random <specific race> individuals.
  - r00fus 12y ago
    I mentioned nothing of race, in fact, gender and sexual orientation are likely just as important to diversity not to mention background and upbringing. That crazy left-field idea might be your key pivot or feature.
- joshuapants 12y ago
  > diversity is a form of strength Is that necessarily true? Do you have some kind of data backing that up or is it just one of the Good Things that people like to say? For example, this article[1] discusses civic involvement, but it's conceivable that diversity in a business environment could have a similar effect. Before the downvote brigade steps in, let me mention that I don't think diversity is a bad thing, just that it might not be inherently positive. I think diversity needs to be coupled with some sort of unity (whether it's a corporate motto like "THINK" at IBM, or a common religion, etc.) in order for it not to negatively impact a group. [1] http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/04/the_downside_of_diversity/?page=full http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/04/t...
blhack 12y ago
>we should all work to make workplaces where everyone can feel wanted What about "bros" who want to discriminate against women? Should they feel wanted? Here's part of a confusing argument I had with a good friend of mine recently. A lot of people see "bros" (I really hate that term) as a problem. Their culture is a problem, their ideas about getting drunk at work and being loud and boisterous are all problems, and these are things that need to be stopped in the name of equality and progress. But what about the individuals there? Some of the "bros" I know who run companies where they drink a lot at work, have frequent company sponsored outings to bars, go drinking after hours, go to parties together, etc. are refugees from the world where none of that was allowed. To them, they've created a safe space for themselves where they are allowed to be what they feel most comfortable as. The sortof neo-progressive response to these people is that what they're doing is wrong, and should be stopped... What's confusing and difficult to me about that is that stopping these people is taking away their safe space. Yes, their safe space is discriminatory (to people who don't desire the same space, of feel safe in that space), but is that necessarily a bad thing? For instance: there is a meetup at a hackerspace in my state called "WTF", which stands for "Women, Trans, Femme". I, as a white, cis, male would not be allowed in the shop during that time. Assuming that gender dysphoria is equally prevalent in men and women, that event discriminates against about 50% of the population. The justification for this, which I understand, and I think I support, is that everybody deserves to have a space where they feel safe. There is a similar motivation behind things like Double Union in SF; it is a women-only hackerspace that exists for people who will feel most comfortable in a women-only hackerspace. Good! I am glad that all of these people are getting to have their safe spaces. But what about my friend that runs a company full of bros? What are they supposed to do? Because it seems like a lot of people think that they shouldn't be allowed to have their space (because it's discriminatory).
- jdmichal 12y ago
  I think the response would be: For these groups that are deemed "in power", their "safe space" is technically everywhere. That is, the default state for any space is that it is a safe space for them, and specific action must be taken to counter that.
- pfisch 12y ago
borgia 12y ago
>I don't think Race or Gender matters and I would not want to work somewhere where it does. Unfortunately we work in an industry whereby the mainstream industry media very highly believes race and gender matter, and that the presence of too "many" of a certain race or gender is "problematic".

r00fus 12y ago

I agree with you although I would phrase it differently (a la Star Trek's IDIC): diversity is a form of strength. In a situation with strong institutional bias towards reduced diversity, it just feels wrong to me.

MichaelGG 12y ago
Is there any evidence that diversity based on racial appearance translates into business strength? I'm guessing that two random, say, Ivy League grads are more similar than two random <specific race> individuals.
- r00fus 12y ago
  I mentioned nothing of race, in fact, gender and sexual orientation are likely just as important to diversity not to mention background and upbringing. That crazy left-field idea might be your key pivot or feature.
joshuapants 12y ago
> diversity is a form of strength Is that necessarily true? Do you have some kind of data backing that up or is it just one of the Good Things that people like to say? For example, this article[1] discusses civic involvement, but it's conceivable that diversity in a business environment could have a similar effect. Before the downvote brigade steps in, let me mention that I don't think diversity is a bad thing, just that it might not be inherently positive. I think diversity needs to be coupled with some sort of unity (whether it's a corporate motto like "THINK" at IBM, or a common religion, etc.) in order for it not to negatively impact a group. [1] http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/04/the_downside_of_diversity/?page=full http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/04/t...

blhack 12y ago

>we should all work to make workplaces where everyone can feel wanted What about "bros" who want to discriminate against women? Should they feel wanted? Here's part of a confusing argument I had with a good friend of mine recently. A lot of people see "bros" (I really hate that term) as a problem. Their culture is a problem, their ideas about getting drunk at work and being loud and boisterous are all problems, and these are things that need to be stopped in the name of equality and progress. But what about the individuals there? Some of the "bros" I know who run companies where they drink a lot at work, have frequent company sponsored outings to bars, go drinking after hours, go to parties together, etc. are refugees from the world where none of that was allowed. To them, they've created a safe space for themselves where they are allowed to be what they feel most comfortable as. The sortof neo-progressive response to these people is that what they're doing is wrong, and should be stopped... What's confusing and difficult to me about that is that stopping these people is taking away their safe space. Yes, their safe space is discriminatory (to people who don't desire the same space, of feel safe in that space), but is that necessarily a bad thing? For instance: there is a meetup at a hackerspace in my state called "WTF", which stands for "Women, Trans, Femme". I, as a white, cis, male would not be allowed in the shop during that time. Assuming that gender dysphoria is equally prevalent in men and women, that event discriminates against about 50% of the population. The justification for this, which I understand, and I think I support, is that everybody deserves to have a space where they feel safe. There is a similar motivation behind things like Double Union in SF; it is a women-only hackerspace that exists for people who will feel most comfortable in a women-only hackerspace. Good! I am glad that all of these people are getting to have their safe spaces. But what about my friend that runs a company full of bros? What are they supposed to do? Because it seems like a lot of people think that they shouldn't be allowed to have their space (because it's discriminatory).

jdmichal 12y ago
I think the response would be: For these groups that are deemed "in power", their "safe space" is technically everywhere. That is, the default state for any space is that it is a safe space for them, and specific action must be taken to counter that.
pfisch 12y ago

borgia 12y ago

>I don't think Race or Gender matters and I would not want to work somewhere where it does. Unfortunately we work in an industry whereby the mainstream industry media very highly believes race and gender matter, and that the presence of too "many" of a certain race or gender is "problematic".