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I just looked up my state's (Illinois) welfare application[1] and it doesn't mention anywhere that having dependents is a necessary condition to receive it. If

I just looked up my state's (Illinois) welfare application[1] and it doesn't mention anywhere that having dependents is a necessary condition to receive it. If being a care-giver is the policy, they do a good job of hiding it. Also, those children have to come from somewhere so why wouldn't they qualify as dependents if you have court ordered child support payments? [1]http://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=33698 http://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=33698

bilbo0s 17y ago
Sorry, I originally put this comment in the wrong place. @dschobel In Illinois the same rules hold true. The reason the men are not eligible is because they are not the custodial parent. That is, their children do not live with them. The custodial parent in most of these cases is the mother. The reason the rules are not made more prominent in the application I cannot speak to. It is tucked away at the bottom of the application in the fine print legalese however: "As a condition of eligibility, if I am approved for TANF Cash and/or medical assistance for myself and my children, I understand that I may berequired to cooperate with child support enforcement. Cooperation includes establishment of paternity and/or support enforcement andmodification of child support orders. I assign and give all my rights, title and interest of child support and medical support to the IllinoisDepartment of Healthcare and Family Services as long as I receive TANF Cash/or medical assistance. I understand and agree that any childsupport payments paid through the clerk of the circuit court and through the State Disbursement Unit (SDU) may be forwarded to the IllinoisDepartment of Healthcare and Family Services as long as I receive TANF Cash. I understand that if I apply for TANF Cash and/or medical assistance for my children only, I am not required to cooperate with child support enforcement, but I may request services." Translation, the woman gets welfare, and the state of Illinois will take aggressive action against the father for the purposes of collecting child support. Which, I think, sounds appropriate in that situation. I would guess most states have this same child support enforcement component. If you read through the application fully, you will find a lot of gotchas, with respect to immigration status, custodial disposition of children, etc. etc. But we're digressing. My only point was that the, generally non custodial, father is not eligible to collect welfare. Further, it is an open question as to whether or not some of the young men in question even have children. I suspect the majority do not at 15 - 24 and poor. I suspect an even smaller minority of this group are custodial parents. Now I don't have data to back up that assertion, its just my impression, or prejudice if you like, that young black guys are generally absentee fathers. Not saying that's the case, just that that is my impression. In any case, yeah, no way they would get welfare in any of the 50 states. In fact if they went in and filled out this application their SSN would probably be flagged for child support enforcement.
- yummyfajitas 17y ago
  Welfare is available to people without families, in various guises. TANF is for families. GA (General Assistance) is available to people ineligible for TANF. SNAP also does not require you to have children. http://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=30368 http://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=30368 http://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=30357 http://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=30357
  - bilbo0s 17y ago
    Looked through the requirements and yeah, it still looks like GA or whatever it is called, is for the sick, injured, or infirm. Here are the requirements: "To qualify for GA Transitional Assistance (GA-TA) DHS must decide that you are not employable. To be considered not employable, you must meet one of the following criteria: * Are 55 or older and have had little or no income during the past year. * Have a serious disability and an application or appeal pending with SSI. * Have to take care of another person in your home because of that person's physical condition. * Are homeless because of a court-ordered eviction or domestic violence, or because of a fire or a natural disaster that happened in the last 6 months. * Are under age 20 and you attend high school or an equivalent vocational or training school full-time. * Regularly take prescription medicine to control seizures, high blood pressure, or diabetes. * Are temporarily unable to work because of illness or incapacity." So black guys 15 - 24 still don't qualify. This system, to me, seems appropriate as well, if you are old or physically incapable of working, the government gives you some sum of money. Not a lot, but something. That sounds reasonable to me. At any rate, it is a little misleading to imply that welfare is available to people without families. Yes, it is available to the elderly and the infirm if they do not have a family. But it is not available to the individuals we are discussing. Black men aged 15 - 24 without high school diplomas.
    - yummyfajitas 17y ago
      So no black guys aged 15-24 are "under age 20 and ...attend high school or an equivalent vocational or training school full-time"?

bilbo0s 17y ago

Sorry, I originally put this comment in the wrong place. @dschobel In Illinois the same rules hold true. The reason the men are not eligible is because they are not the custodial parent. That is, their children do not live with them. The custodial parent in most of these cases is the mother. The reason the rules are not made more prominent in the application I cannot speak to. It is tucked away at the bottom of the application in the fine print legalese however: "As a condition of eligibility, if I am approved for TANF Cash and/or medical assistance for myself and my children, I understand that I may berequired to cooperate with child support enforcement. Cooperation includes establishment of paternity and/or support enforcement andmodification of child support orders. I assign and give all my rights, title and interest of child support and medical support to the IllinoisDepartment of Healthcare and Family Services as long as I receive TANF Cash/or medical assistance. I understand and agree that any childsupport payments paid through the clerk of the circuit court and through the State Disbursement Unit (SDU) may be forwarded to the IllinoisDepartment of Healthcare and Family Services as long as I receive TANF Cash. I understand that if I apply for TANF Cash and/or medical assistance for my children only, I am not required to cooperate with child support enforcement, but I may request services." Translation, the woman gets welfare, and the state of Illinois will take aggressive action against the father for the purposes of collecting child support. Which, I think, sounds appropriate in that situation. I would guess most states have this same child support enforcement component. If you read through the application fully, you will find a lot of gotchas, with respect to immigration status, custodial disposition of children, etc. etc. But we're digressing. My only point was that the, generally non custodial, father is not eligible to collect welfare. Further, it is an open question as to whether or not some of the young men in question even have children. I suspect the majority do not at 15 - 24 and poor. I suspect an even smaller minority of this group are custodial parents. Now I don't have data to back up that assertion, its just my impression, or prejudice if you like, that young black guys are generally absentee fathers. Not saying that's the case, just that that is my impression. In any case, yeah, no way they would get welfare in any of the 50 states. In fact if they went in and filled out this application their SSN would probably be flagged for child support enforcement.

yummyfajitas 17y ago
Welfare is available to people without families, in various guises. TANF is for families. GA (General Assistance) is available to people ineligible for TANF. SNAP also does not require you to have children. http://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=30368 http://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=30368 http://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=30357 http://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=30357
- bilbo0s 17y ago
  Looked through the requirements and yeah, it still looks like GA or whatever it is called, is for the sick, injured, or infirm. Here are the requirements: "To qualify for GA Transitional Assistance (GA-TA) DHS must decide that you are not employable. To be considered not employable, you must meet one of the following criteria: * Are 55 or older and have had little or no income during the past year. * Have a serious disability and an application or appeal pending with SSI. * Have to take care of another person in your home because of that person's physical condition. * Are homeless because of a court-ordered eviction or domestic violence, or because of a fire or a natural disaster that happened in the last 6 months. * Are under age 20 and you attend high school or an equivalent vocational or training school full-time. * Regularly take prescription medicine to control seizures, high blood pressure, or diabetes. * Are temporarily unable to work because of illness or incapacity." So black guys 15 - 24 still don't qualify. This system, to me, seems appropriate as well, if you are old or physically incapable of working, the government gives you some sum of money. Not a lot, but something. That sounds reasonable to me. At any rate, it is a little misleading to imply that welfare is available to people without families. Yes, it is available to the elderly and the infirm if they do not have a family. But it is not available to the individuals we are discussing. Black men aged 15 - 24 without high school diplomas.
  - yummyfajitas 17y ago
    So no black guys aged 15-24 are "under age 20 and ...attend high school or an equivalent vocational or training school full-time"?