4 ms·

It sounds nuts at the time, now we just think "of course." +1 "told ya so" point for Mr Assange. Gotta love the PCMCIA mentions; brings back memories.

by nerdy 12y ago

MichaelGG 12y ago
Wasn't Carnivore revealed around this time? Is it such s huge leap to go from that to monitoring all traffic?
- nerdy 12y ago
  They probably just couldn't go as deep on as many targets but were able to watch a lot from a relatively high level. Back then there was a lot less noise to filter through, too. Mobile devices weren't ubiquitous... traffic was mostly e-mail. When the FBI was using Carnivore, Jaz drives were still a thing. If you had a 56k modem you the lucky guy on your local bulletin board. So in retrospect tools like Carnivore sound primitive... at the time it was a pretty sharp scalpel. Room 641A and MySpace both launched in 2003. Facebook became popular between 2004 and 2008. There were a few others in there; but in general the government programs scale relative to the amount of data made available through the Internet. In 1996 there just wasn't that much.
- soup10 12y ago
  It was clear it was technologically possible to do mass electronic dragnet surveillance for a long time, but NSA officials have lied thousands of times about the breadth and extent of their collection activities and people that like to trust the government(and authorities in general) gave them the benefit of the doubt. Now it's out of the bag though and the public is apathetic so it's likely to continue.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
acqq 12y ago
Raising awareness was OK goal, but he also links to the text "NSA Can Break PGP Encryption" which deadlinks today but a copy of it is preserved on another site, and there we read "it's a joke:" http://www.austinlinks.com/Crypto/break-pgp.html http://www.austinlinks.com/Crypto/break-pgp.html EDIT: see dchest's comment, it's seems it's a repost from the NorthStar's newsletter, so then it has sense to link even to the "joke" stuff just tho give the readers an overview. If you look how it lo
- nerdy 12y ago
  Yeah the NSA would never try to break crypto anyhow coughDual_EC_DRBGcough
icebraining 12y ago
There had been articles for a decade about the NSA and ECHELON, like [1]. I remember reading about the system in '99, in an (independent) Spanish hacking magazine. I'm frankly still amazed at how many people here were just so flabbergasted. I thought it was public knowledge in this community. It wasn't even an underground thing: the European Parliament had a report on it published in June 2001 [2]. [1] http://www.duncancampbell.org/menu/journalism/newstatesman/newstatesman-1988/They%27ve%20got%20it%20taped.pdf http://www.duncancampbell.org/menu/journalism/newstatesman/n... [2] http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//NONSGML+REPORT+A5-2001-0264+0+DOC+PDF+V0//EN&language=EN http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//...
- DonHopkins 12y ago
  Remember the Clipper chip? It was announced in 1993 and by 1996 was entirely defunct. EFF and Wired Magazine published a lot of anti-clipper backlash during that time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cyberright.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cyberright.png https://w2.eff.org/Misc/Graphics/ https://w2.eff.org/Misc/Graphics/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip >Backlash >Organizations such as the Electronic Privacy Information Center and the Electronic Frontier Foundation challenged the Clipper chip proposal, saying that it would have the effect not only of subjecting citizens to increased and possibly illegal government surveillance, but that the strength of the Clipper chip's encryption could not be evaluated by the public, as its design was classified secret, and that therefore individuals and businesses might be hobbled with an insecure communications system. Further, it was pointed out that while American companies could be forced to use the Clipper chip in their encryption products, foreign companies could not, and presumably phones with strong data encryption would be manufactured abroad and spread throughout the world and into the United States, negating the point of the whole exercise, and, of course, materially damaging U.S. manufacturers en route. Then-Senators John Ashcroft and John Kerry were opponents of the Clipper chip proposal, arguing in favor of the individual's right to encrypt messages and export encryption software. >The release and development of several strong cryptographic software packages such as Nautilus, PGP and PGPfone was in response to the government push for the Clipper chip. The thinking was that if strong cryptography was freely available on the internet as an alternative, the government would be unable to stop its use. Here's a photo that Tom Jennings took of some graffiti I left in South Park (next to Wired's office) in San Francisco around 1994: http://worldpowersystems.com/projects/wps.com.21Oct1996/anti-clipper-graffiti.gif http://worldpowersystems.com/projects/wps.com.21Oct1996/anti...
elchief 12y ago
PCMCIA = People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms
- Intermernet 12y ago
  Perhaps Computer Mechanisms Can't Inspire Acronyms?
- madaxe_again 12y ago
  TWAIN = Toolkit Without an Important Name Always my favourite.
  - caf 12y ago
    I heard it as Thing Without An Interesting Name
- agumonkey 12y ago
  Anything with `association` in it is a disgrace to my ears.
  - mkempe 12y ago
    such as the ACM?
    - agumonkey 12y ago
      Ha, hell, as last term I should add. FIFA.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

It sounds nuts at the time, now we just think "of course." +1 "told ya so" point for Mr Assange. Gotta love the PCMCIA mentions; brings back memories.

by nerdy 12y ago

It sounds nuts at the time, now we just think "of course." +1 "told ya so" point for Mr Assange. Gotta love the PCMCIA mentions; brings back memories.

MichaelGG 12y ago

Wasn't Carnivore revealed around this time? Is it such s huge leap to go from that to monitoring all traffic?

nerdy 12y ago
They probably just couldn't go as deep on as many targets but were able to watch a lot from a relatively high level. Back then there was a lot less noise to filter through, too. Mobile devices weren't ubiquitous... traffic was mostly e-mail. When the FBI was using Carnivore, Jaz drives were still a thing. If you had a 56k modem you the lucky guy on your local bulletin board. So in retrospect tools like Carnivore sound primitive... at the time it was a pretty sharp scalpel. Room 641A and MySpace both launched in 2003. Facebook became popular between 2004 and 2008. There were a few others in there; but in general the government programs scale relative to the amount of data made available through the Internet. In 1996 there just wasn't that much.
soup10 12y ago
It was clear it was technologically possible to do mass electronic dragnet surveillance for a long time, but NSA officials have lied thousands of times about the breadth and extent of their collection activities and people that like to trust the government(and authorities in general) gave them the benefit of the doubt. Now it's out of the bag though and the public is apathetic so it's likely to continue.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

acqq 12y ago

Raising awareness was OK goal, but he also links to the text "NSA Can Break PGP Encryption" which deadlinks today but a copy of it is preserved on another site, and there we read "it's a joke:" http://www.austinlinks.com/Crypto/break-pgp.html http://www.austinlinks.com/Crypto/break-pgp.html EDIT: see dchest's comment, it's seems it's a repost from the NorthStar's newsletter, so then it has sense to link even to the "joke" stuff just tho give the readers an overview. If you look how it lo

nerdy 12y ago
Yeah the NSA would never try to break crypto anyhow coughDual_EC_DRBGcough

icebraining 12y ago

There had been articles for a decade about the NSA and ECHELON, like [1]. I remember reading about the system in '99, in an (independent) Spanish hacking magazine. I'm frankly still amazed at how many people here were just so flabbergasted. I thought it was public knowledge in this community. It wasn't even an underground thing: the European Parliament had a report on it published in June 2001 [2]. [1] http://www.duncancampbell.org/menu/journalism/newstatesman/newstatesman-1988/They%27ve%20got%20it%20taped.pdf http://www.duncancampbell.org/menu/journalism/newstatesman/n... [2] http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//NONSGML+REPORT+A5-2001-0264+0+DOC+PDF+V0//EN&language=EN http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//...

DonHopkins 12y ago
Remember the Clipper chip? It was announced in 1993 and by 1996 was entirely defunct. EFF and Wired Magazine published a lot of anti-clipper backlash during that time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cyberright.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cyberright.png https://w2.eff.org/Misc/Graphics/ https://w2.eff.org/Misc/Graphics/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip >Backlash >Organizations such as the Electronic Privacy Information Center and the Electronic Frontier Foundation challenged the Clipper chip proposal, saying that it would have the effect not only of subjecting citizens to increased and possibly illegal government surveillance, but that the strength of the Clipper chip's encryption could not be evaluated by the public, as its design was classified secret, and that therefore individuals and businesses might be hobbled with an insecure communications system. Further, it was pointed out that while American companies could be forced to use the Clipper chip in their encryption products, foreign companies could not, and presumably phones with strong data encryption would be manufactured abroad and spread throughout the world and into the United States, negating the point of the whole exercise, and, of course, materially damaging U.S. manufacturers en route. Then-Senators John Ashcroft and John Kerry were opponents of the Clipper chip proposal, arguing in favor of the individual's right to encrypt messages and export encryption software. >The release and development of several strong cryptographic software packages such as Nautilus, PGP and PGPfone was in response to the government push for the Clipper chip. The thinking was that if strong cryptography was freely available on the internet as an alternative, the government would be unable to stop its use. Here's a photo that Tom Jennings took of some graffiti I left in South Park (next to Wired's office) in San Francisco around 1994: http://worldpowersystems.com/projects/wps.com.21Oct1996/anti-clipper-graffiti.gif http://worldpowersystems.com/projects/wps.com.21Oct1996/anti...

elchief 12y ago

PCMCIA = People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms

Intermernet 12y ago
Perhaps Computer Mechanisms Can't Inspire Acronyms?
madaxe_again 12y ago
TWAIN = Toolkit Without an Important Name Always my favourite.
- caf 12y ago
  I heard it as Thing Without An Interesting Name
agumonkey 12y ago
Anything with `association` in it is a disgrace to my ears.
- mkempe 12y ago
  such as the ACM?
  - agumonkey 12y ago
    Ha, hell, as last term I should add. FIFA.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]