3 ms·

Gotta hand it to Microsoft. Behind the times on web dev for so long, now busting out open source left and right, teaming up on Angular with Google, jumping on

by thebouv 12y ago

Gotta hand it to Microsoft. Behind the times on web dev for so long, now busting out open source left and right, teaming up on Angular with Google, jumping on with nodejs, modernizing their tools, "gently" pushing locked in MS web devs out of the darkness of that Web Forms madness into the light of real web development. I've always been a LAMP stack dev but they have at least caught my attention as of late.

jeswin 12y ago
> Gotta hand it to Microsoft. Behind the times on web dev for so long, now busting out open source left and right, .... Open Source is not just about opening up some source code, it is also about how you act in the larger interests of the community. Just earlier this month, Microsoft sued Kyocera over patents on Android. Microsoft has sued every Android phone maker so far, and have forced some of them to make Windows phones. Their position on Linux infringing unspecified patents has not changed or been clarified. Microsoft is playing the Open Source game because they really have no choice. Open Source has thrived and will thrive without them. Microsoft doesn't deserve our attention until they stop abusing patents.
- pistle 12y ago
  Forest, meet trees. MS is a very large company with divergent groups given KPI's that turn into seemingly contradictory actions. It's the Kabuki theater of patent suing in order to eventually end up at a table finding a way to forge ahead "together." It's something the large IP players have all been doing on the long tail of the IP consolidation wars. IP royalty harvesting is separate enough from the open source efforts that it's picking nits a bit. MS is growing open source because players and groups have beaten the drum to get there and the lumbering giant has shifted. The seeds planted years ago are bearing fruit. You can sing the war song, but Open has won. Glory be! Nobody is looking for everyone to jump into Azure as if it were the latest awesome distro because a bunch of core dev tools, frameworks, and open-friendly advances have happened, but on the current trajectory, we will see the old walls of our discontent torn down by those who built them. You get enough .net devs to come out of their caves and you could be wading through as many "MS + my favorite open source project" posts as not... and the communities, overlapping into harmony, will have bigger upsides for both than downsides. It's becoming an increasingly good time to be a developer. When those you hate become undifferentiated from yourself, do you grow to hate yourself or to love the one you hated?
  - blumkvist 12y ago
    Posts like these are the reason why I visit HN.
AdeptusAquinas 12y ago
>"gently" pushing locked in MS web devs out of the darkness of that Web Forms madness Minor nitpick on your otherwise positive comment, we have been using ASP.NET MVC for almost ten years now (ok eight). Webforms have long been a thing of the past, at least in the circles most devs I know move in.
- thebouv 12y ago
  From my admittedly limited perspective, it just NOW seems that Microsoft is really pushing for devs to meet up with real web development. I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with MS devs who only know how to develop with web forms. They've never heard of grunt, node, MVC (the concept in general, let alone the option in .NET), SASS, NoSQL, RWD and the list goes on and on. It's like they've been living in a closet. Not that they have to use ANY of those I listed -- but to KNOW such things exist! For so long it seemed MS's mantra was "keep using only our stuff, its okay, don't look out the window at everything else going on". And so many that I've met just said "okay". Now I feel there is a concerted effort from them to reverse that and really push education beyond the MS closet; it is very interesting to watch devs come out into the sun, blinking. Again, just amongst the MS devs I've had the pleasure of working around, talking to online and off, at meetups and at jobs. But yes, only from my limited circle. Never meant to imply anything other than: I'm excited for MS devs and myself, as I'm actually wanting to dip my toe in the water as well and pick up .NET. So nothing but excitement from me on it.
- boldrikboldrik 12y ago
  I think it's think of past on new projects, but old and intranet project still use Web Forms. For me it's (unluckily) still most of my work.
  - pionar 12y ago
    I work on a 12 year old application that's still current, and we're just now making the transition from web forms to MVC in that application. It's so nice that MSFT has a big eye toward backwards compatibility, allowing web forms and MVC in the same project.

by thebouv 12y ago

jeswin 12y ago

> Gotta hand it to Microsoft. Behind the times on web dev for so long, now busting out open source left and right, .... Open Source is not just about opening up some source code, it is also about how you act in the larger interests of the community. Just earlier this month, Microsoft sued Kyocera over patents on Android. Microsoft has sued every Android phone maker so far, and have forced some of them to make Windows phones. Their position on Linux infringing unspecified patents has not changed or been clarified. Microsoft is playing the Open Source game because they really have no choice. Open Source has thrived and will thrive without them. Microsoft doesn't deserve our attention until they stop abusing patents.

pistle 12y ago
Forest, meet trees. MS is a very large company with divergent groups given KPI's that turn into seemingly contradictory actions. It's the Kabuki theater of patent suing in order to eventually end up at a table finding a way to forge ahead "together." It's something the large IP players have all been doing on the long tail of the IP consolidation wars. IP royalty harvesting is separate enough from the open source efforts that it's picking nits a bit. MS is growing open source because players and groups have beaten the drum to get there and the lumbering giant has shifted. The seeds planted years ago are bearing fruit. You can sing the war song, but Open has won. Glory be! Nobody is looking for everyone to jump into Azure as if it were the latest awesome distro because a bunch of core dev tools, frameworks, and open-friendly advances have happened, but on the current trajectory, we will see the old walls of our discontent torn down by those who built them. You get enough .net devs to come out of their caves and you could be wading through as many "MS + my favorite open source project" posts as not... and the communities, overlapping into harmony, will have bigger upsides for both than downsides. It's becoming an increasingly good time to be a developer. When those you hate become undifferentiated from yourself, do you grow to hate yourself or to love the one you hated?
- blumkvist 12y ago
  Posts like these are the reason why I visit HN.

AdeptusAquinas 12y ago

>"gently" pushing locked in MS web devs out of the darkness of that Web Forms madness Minor nitpick on your otherwise positive comment, we have been using ASP.NET MVC for almost ten years now (ok eight). Webforms have long been a thing of the past, at least in the circles most devs I know move in.

thebouv 12y ago
From my admittedly limited perspective, it just NOW seems that Microsoft is really pushing for devs to meet up with real web development. I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with MS devs who only know how to develop with web forms. They've never heard of grunt, node, MVC (the concept in general, let alone the option in .NET), SASS, NoSQL, RWD and the list goes on and on. It's like they've been living in a closet. Not that they have to use ANY of those I listed -- but to KNOW such things exist! For so long it seemed MS's mantra was "keep using only our stuff, its okay, don't look out the window at everything else going on". And so many that I've met just said "okay". Now I feel there is a concerted effort from them to reverse that and really push education beyond the MS closet; it is very interesting to watch devs come out into the sun, blinking. Again, just amongst the MS devs I've had the pleasure of working around, talking to online and off, at meetups and at jobs. But yes, only from my limited circle. Never meant to imply anything other than: I'm excited for MS devs and myself, as I'm actually wanting to dip my toe in the water as well and pick up .NET. So nothing but excitement from me on it.
boldrikboldrik 12y ago
I think it's think of past on new projects, but old and intranet project still use Web Forms. For me it's (unluckily) still most of my work.
- pionar 12y ago
  I work on a 12 year old application that's still current, and we're just now making the transition from web forms to MVC in that application. It's so nice that MSFT has a big eye toward backwards compatibility, allowing web forms and MVC in the same project.