5 ms·

setup a ejabberd server on a beaglebone and put a web xmpp client on it. encrypt the shit out of everything, get your friends on to it. i'm sure there's valid

setup a ejabberd server on a beaglebone and put a web xmpp client on it. encrypt the shit out of everything, get your friends on to it. i'm sure there's valid business reasons to kill xmpp, not just total information awareness pressures from above.

throwawayaway 12y ago
i suggested this because i believe xmpp to be superior to irc.
- simoncion 12y ago
  Step #4 (get your friends to use it) is really hard to do. I tried and failed with my friend group. If there's one non-technical user in the group (or one who is tremendously attached to their Hangouts chat history), you're probably doomed to failure.
  - throwawayaway 12y ago
    i've had limited success, one factor that helped was me going cold turkey on the alternatives. also you define your own success, gaining a monopoly is rather a high standard!
    - click170 12y ago
      This. If you won't drop the other networks there's no need for them to join your server, your still on the networks they're already using. Only you can change that.
      - simoncion 12y ago
        I wrote a reply to another message that expressed this sentiment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9267342 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9267342
    - simoncion 12y ago
      We apparently have quite different friends. Removing myself from Hangouts means that I get information either in person, or through email, if at all. I'm currently relying on the Signal rework of TextSecure to get most of us off of Hangouts: the big barrier to adoption has been easy-to-configure clients that work on Android, iOS, and desktop and sync message history amongst clients.
      - throwawayaway 12y ago
        web client xmpp isn't going to be very good at storing message history, i'll grant you.
        simoncion 12y ago
        Yep. You'd need a server somewhere to store and replay that message history. There is an XMPP standard that specifies how to do that. Question is whether or not your client can speak that protocol.
        throwawayaway 12y ago
        curiousity piqued, what's the XEP number for the protocol?
        thallian 12y ago
        XEP-0313 I think: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html
        simoncion 12y ago
        I was actually thinking about XEP-0136: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0136.html http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0136.html . I was completely unaware of XEP-0313, thanks for the info!
        12y ago
- darklajid 12y ago
  I would like to believe the same. The prosody folks are awesome btw (as an alternative to ejabberd). But there are still open issues. One big one, compared to all the FB/Google/etc. offerings is the ability to have a usable chat log. Current xmpp implementations/standards are more or less useless if you happen to use more than one device and want to look something up/want to see what you wrote to your brother yesterday, on your desktop, while looking at your phone. Mandatory extensions in my world: - Stream Management (easy) - Carbon Copies (easy) - MAM/Message Archive (described above, hard, haven't found a way yet)
  - thallian 12y ago
    Mam is exactly what I am waiting for too. It should be in prosody 0.10 [1] (not stable yet) but I did not yet have a change to test it. (And XEP-0313 is still quite new and experimental) [1]: https://code.google.com/p/prosody-modules/wiki/mod_mam https://code.google.com/p/prosody-modules/wiki/mod_mam
Tepix 12y ago
The problem right now is persistent connections on iOS. You need to use push messages instead, which requires a plugin on the jabber server and a matching client. Not something you can expect all your friends to set up.
- throwawayaway 12y ago
  i thought push notifications worked with IM+ on iOS? i am not very familiar with either though, so i'm probably wrong.
  - ge0rg 12y ago
    There is a number of IM clients for iOS, that store your credential "in the cloud" (use their own infrastructure to terminate the XMPP connection and route push notifications to their clients). This is not ideal for your privacy, to put it into friendly words.
    - throwawayaway 12y ago
      interesting! i think iMessage works like that. not sure that IM+ does, but it might well.
- tfar 12y ago
  You could also have clients and servers implement http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0357.html http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0357.html .
  - hackerboos 12y ago
    ejabberd doesn't support 0357 [0]. Presumably because their 'pro' version has mobile support. MongooseIM doesn't support it either, although there is talk of it being implemented [1] To be fair though, it was only accepted on the 18th March 2015. [0] - https://www.ejabberd.im/protocols https://www.ejabberd.im/protocols [1] - https://github.com/esl/MongooseIM/issues/405 https://github.com/esl/MongooseIM/issues/405

throwawayaway 12y ago

i suggested this because i believe xmpp to be superior to irc.

simoncion 12y ago
Step #4 (get your friends to use it) is really hard to do. I tried and failed with my friend group. If there's one non-technical user in the group (or one who is tremendously attached to their Hangouts chat history), you're probably doomed to failure.
- throwawayaway 12y ago
  i've had limited success, one factor that helped was me going cold turkey on the alternatives. also you define your own success, gaining a monopoly is rather a high standard!
  - click170 12y ago
    This. If you won't drop the other networks there's no need for them to join your server, your still on the networks they're already using. Only you can change that.
    - simoncion 12y ago
      I wrote a reply to another message that expressed this sentiment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9267342 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9267342
  - simoncion 12y ago
    We apparently have quite different friends. Removing myself from Hangouts means that I get information either in person, or through email, if at all. I'm currently relying on the Signal rework of TextSecure to get most of us off of Hangouts: the big barrier to adoption has been easy-to-configure clients that work on Android, iOS, and desktop and sync message history amongst clients.
    - throwawayaway 12y ago
      web client xmpp isn't going to be very good at storing message history, i'll grant you.
      - simoncion 12y ago
        Yep. You'd need a server somewhere to store and replay that message history. There is an XMPP standard that specifies how to do that. Question is whether or not your client can speak that protocol.
        throwawayaway 12y ago
        curiousity piqued, what's the XEP number for the protocol?
        thallian 12y ago
        XEP-0313 I think: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html
        simoncion 12y ago
        I was actually thinking about XEP-0136: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0136.html http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0136.html . I was completely unaware of XEP-0313, thanks for the info!
        12y ago
darklajid 12y ago
I would like to believe the same. The prosody folks are awesome btw (as an alternative to ejabberd). But there are still open issues. One big one, compared to all the FB/Google/etc. offerings is the ability to have a usable chat log. Current xmpp implementations/standards are more or less useless if you happen to use more than one device and want to look something up/want to see what you wrote to your brother yesterday, on your desktop, while looking at your phone. Mandatory extensions in my world: - Stream Management (easy) - Carbon Copies (easy) - MAM/Message Archive (described above, hard, haven't found a way yet)
- thallian 12y ago
  Mam is exactly what I am waiting for too. It should be in prosody 0.10 [1] (not stable yet) but I did not yet have a change to test it. (And XEP-0313 is still quite new and experimental) [1]: https://code.google.com/p/prosody-modules/wiki/mod_mam https://code.google.com/p/prosody-modules/wiki/mod_mam

Tepix 12y ago

The problem right now is persistent connections on iOS. You need to use push messages instead, which requires a plugin on the jabber server and a matching client. Not something you can expect all your friends to set up.

throwawayaway 12y ago
i thought push notifications worked with IM+ on iOS? i am not very familiar with either though, so i'm probably wrong.
- ge0rg 12y ago
  There is a number of IM clients for iOS, that store your credential "in the cloud" (use their own infrastructure to terminate the XMPP connection and route push notifications to their clients). This is not ideal for your privacy, to put it into friendly words.
  - throwawayaway 12y ago
    interesting! i think iMessage works like that. not sure that IM+ does, but it might well.
tfar 12y ago
You could also have clients and servers implement http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0357.html http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0357.html .
- hackerboos 12y ago
  ejabberd doesn't support 0357 [0]. Presumably because their 'pro' version has mobile support. MongooseIM doesn't support it either, although there is talk of it being implemented [1] To be fair though, it was only accepted on the 18th March 2015. [0] - https://www.ejabberd.im/protocols https://www.ejabberd.im/protocols [1] - https://github.com/esl/MongooseIM/issues/405 https://github.com/esl/MongooseIM/issues/405