4 ms·

They share the parking lot of my company, and the cars look pretty cool. What I don't understand: cars are not encrusted with sensors like Google's self drivin

by bbulkow 12y ago

They share the parking lot of my company, and the cars look pretty cool. What I don't understand: cars are not encrusted with sensors like Google's self driving cars. Would love an explaination of their tech to hide sensors.

TeMPOraL 12y ago
Didn't Google just bolt a ton of sensors on top of an existing car and called it a day? Also, it seems that only they are using LIDARs - apparently Tesla is doing self-driving cars without them (look at the Model S - do you see any sensor?), and so are some major car manufacturers.
- CardenB 12y ago
  It's true. LIDAR can make the car look bad. If you add LIDAR in places where you can hide them (like the side of the car) vision is seriously restricted. This is why Google places the LIDAR so high up in their cars. The LIDAR is able to give an almost-birds-eye view of the surroundings the higher up it is. Plus Elon doesn't like LIDAR because it bit him when they tried using it for autonomous landing tech at SpaceX. Still, cameras and radar only get you so far... I'm also wondering how Delphi is doing all this with the tools they have.
  - Turing_Machine 12y ago
    Per their site, the Delphi vehicle has "... four short-range radars, three vision-based cameras, six lidars, a localization system, intelligent software algorithms and a full suite of Advanced Drive Assistance Systems." http://www.delphi.com/delphi-drive http://www.delphi.com/delphi-drive
    - CardenB 12y ago
      Right, I meant to say, "I wonder how they're getting so much functionality out of LIDAR without mounting it so high?"
- RealityVoid 12y ago
  Yeah, but they're using radars. Or fixed-pointing LIDARS. They are more discrete and blend more easily into the car. As for other companies not using LIDARS, I beg to disagree. They do, but they use the far far simpler (and cheaper) variety. But the Google tech has a broader view of the surrounding area. In the end, it won't matter as much how pretty the sensors look as long as they get the job done.
  - mattlutze 12y ago
    On the contrary, two cars the same, it will matter more how pretty the sensors are, as people aren't going to purchase an "ugly" car in droves.
    - RealityVoid 12y ago
      I bet you that if the car has better performance and reliability, people won't give a rat's ass how pretty the car looks.
      - rwmj 12y ago
        Also, I don't care what my taxi looks like.
- masklinn 12y ago
  > Tesla is doing self-driving cars Tesla is absolutely not doing self-driving cars at the moment, they're doing limited autopilot (which IIRC already exists to an extant on other high-end sedans e.g. auto-steering using lane detection on highways)
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/self-driving/tesla-model-s-to-combine-safety-sensors-to-go-autonomous http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/self... Current Teslas apparently have enough hardware to drive themselves around, but this year they plan to enable only a limited set of features because of safety reasons.
  - chiph 12y ago
    The problem I have with lane detection is that my state's highways don't have the clearest painted lines. And on the road I'd most want to use an auto-drive system on, it's been under construction since the late 80's so the lines are frequently wrong or missing. Not to mention the effect that heavy rain and snow has on the visibility of the lines. I think it's a fine supplemental system, but should never be a primary guide.
- dagw 12y ago
  Google's self driving car program was essentially born out of the DARPA Self Driving Challenge where looks weren't in any way a factor. So they started with the best senors possible, and kind of assume that they'd probably get smaller with time. Delphi, Tesla and all other car manufacturers came at the problem from the starting point that obviously visual sensors where a non-starter. So they started with the smallest sensors possible and kind of assumed that they'd get accurate enough with time Eventually they'll meet in the middle.
  - agumonkey 12y ago
    It's funny how fast things have changed since Thrun won. Before that, IIRC, cars wouldn't manage to drive 10% hitting a rock. All of a sudden : Google Cars everywhere.
    - dagw 12y ago
      I know it's amazing. 11 years ago the state of the art car barely made 12 km, before getting stuck on a rock. And that was without having to deal with any traffic. 8 years ago the state of the art car managed to crawl through a 60 mile fake urban course at a speed of just over 20 km/h Today 'everybody' has a working self driving car handling real life traffic and normal driving speeds.
pmorici 12y ago
When I was in college in the early 00's I worked at a Delphi test lab. Even back then they had sensors under development that were pretty advanced especially for the time. Things like automated cruise control that adjusted the cruise speed based on the surrounding traffic. The leap from driver assisting tech to full self driving doesn't seem that big in terms of the sensors themselves and Delphi has been making sensors that go into production automobiles for a long time.

by bbulkow 12y ago

TeMPOraL 12y ago

Didn't Google just bolt a ton of sensors on top of an existing car and called it a day? Also, it seems that only they are using LIDARs - apparently Tesla is doing self-driving cars without them (look at the Model S - do you see any sensor?), and so are some major car manufacturers.

CardenB 12y ago
It's true. LIDAR can make the car look bad. If you add LIDAR in places where you can hide them (like the side of the car) vision is seriously restricted. This is why Google places the LIDAR so high up in their cars. The LIDAR is able to give an almost-birds-eye view of the surroundings the higher up it is. Plus Elon doesn't like LIDAR because it bit him when they tried using it for autonomous landing tech at SpaceX. Still, cameras and radar only get you so far... I'm also wondering how Delphi is doing all this with the tools they have.
- Turing_Machine 12y ago
  Per their site, the Delphi vehicle has "... four short-range radars, three vision-based cameras, six lidars, a localization system, intelligent software algorithms and a full suite of Advanced Drive Assistance Systems." http://www.delphi.com/delphi-drive http://www.delphi.com/delphi-drive
  - CardenB 12y ago
    Right, I meant to say, "I wonder how they're getting so much functionality out of LIDAR without mounting it so high?"
RealityVoid 12y ago
Yeah, but they're using radars. Or fixed-pointing LIDARS. They are more discrete and blend more easily into the car. As for other companies not using LIDARS, I beg to disagree. They do, but they use the far far simpler (and cheaper) variety. But the Google tech has a broader view of the surrounding area. In the end, it won't matter as much how pretty the sensors look as long as they get the job done.
- mattlutze 12y ago
  On the contrary, two cars the same, it will matter more how pretty the sensors are, as people aren't going to purchase an "ugly" car in droves.
  - RealityVoid 12y ago
    I bet you that if the car has better performance and reliability, people won't give a rat's ass how pretty the car looks.
    - rwmj 12y ago
      Also, I don't care what my taxi looks like.
masklinn 12y ago
> Tesla is doing self-driving cars Tesla is absolutely not doing self-driving cars at the moment, they're doing limited autopilot (which IIRC already exists to an extant on other high-end sedans e.g. auto-steering using lane detection on highways)
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/self-driving/tesla-model-s-to-combine-safety-sensors-to-go-autonomous http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/self... Current Teslas apparently have enough hardware to drive themselves around, but this year they plan to enable only a limited set of features because of safety reasons.
- chiph 12y ago
  The problem I have with lane detection is that my state's highways don't have the clearest painted lines. And on the road I'd most want to use an auto-drive system on, it's been under construction since the late 80's so the lines are frequently wrong or missing. Not to mention the effect that heavy rain and snow has on the visibility of the lines. I think it's a fine supplemental system, but should never be a primary guide.
dagw 12y ago
Google's self driving car program was essentially born out of the DARPA Self Driving Challenge where looks weren't in any way a factor. So they started with the best senors possible, and kind of assume that they'd probably get smaller with time. Delphi, Tesla and all other car manufacturers came at the problem from the starting point that obviously visual sensors where a non-starter. So they started with the smallest sensors possible and kind of assumed that they'd get accurate enough with time Eventually they'll meet in the middle.
- agumonkey 12y ago
  It's funny how fast things have changed since Thrun won. Before that, IIRC, cars wouldn't manage to drive 10% hitting a rock. All of a sudden : Google Cars everywhere.
  - dagw 12y ago
    I know it's amazing. 11 years ago the state of the art car barely made 12 km, before getting stuck on a rock. And that was without having to deal with any traffic. 8 years ago the state of the art car managed to crawl through a 60 mile fake urban course at a speed of just over 20 km/h Today 'everybody' has a working self driving car handling real life traffic and normal driving speeds.

pmorici 12y ago

When I was in college in the early 00's I worked at a Delphi test lab. Even back then they had sensors under development that were pretty advanced especially for the time. Things like automated cruise control that adjusted the cruise speed based on the surrounding traffic. The leap from driver assisting tech to full self driving doesn't seem that big in terms of the sensors themselves and Delphi has been making sensors that go into production automobiles for a long time.