4 ms·

RedLaser ― Impossibly accurate barcode scanning

43 points by stakent 17y ago

dazzawazza 17y ago
Interesting that it uses the zxing library [1] which doesn't support EAN/UPC yet (on iPhone) and they have written EAN/UPC scanning and haven't been kind enough to donate the code back to zxing. I guess that would remove their developer license revenue stream [2]. I assume they use Amazon to get EAN->item mapping which is against the amazon TOS. If they don't I love to know what they do use. [1] - http://code.google.com/p/zxing/ http://code.google.com/p/zxing/ [2] - http://redlaser.com/SDK.aspx http://redlaser.com/SDK.aspx
- ZeroGravitas 17y ago
  I thought the iPhone didn't support those kind of barcodes due to physics based limitations of the camera/lens. If they're doing something really clever to read these barcodes it makes some sense to not just give it away. The Apache licence does give them that option.
  - davepeck 17y ago
    All iPhones have good enough optics to detect 2D barcodes like QR Code. Linear barcodes like UPC were trickier until the iPhone 3GS, which has variable focus camera hardware that also admits direct access to camera frames. On the 3GS, barcode scanning is a cake walk. There are many surprising things about RedLaser's success, but technology isn't one of them. I agree with OP that apparent violations of licensing (access to Amazon.com via mobile is not allowed) are surprising. Most surprising to me is how well RedLaser has sold given that barcode scanning was antiquated over a year ago by products like SnapTell. Why scan a UPC code when you can just take a picture of the cover of a book and have the product found just as fast, with as good or better accuracy? No matter if your photo is blurry, or badly lit, or out of focus, or only grabs a part of the book's cover...
    - dminor 17y ago
      I'm surprised it's selling at all. Aren't there any decent free barcode apps for the iPhone?
    - jodrellblank 17y ago
      The picture on the redlaser homepage shows someone scanning a packet of Quaker Oats. Does SnapTell handle food/drink/other supermarket goods?
    - ErrantX 17y ago
      Why scan a UPC code when you can just take a picture of the cover of a book and have the product found just as fast Surely the error rate of that compared to bar codes is much higher. For common products Im sure it works just as well but bar code scanning doesn't degrade for edge cases in the same way.
      - davepeck 17y ago
        You should try it. It is remarkably great, and while I can't speak to error rates I believe that it is on par or better than a good camera-based scanner. Also: using SnapTell with my decades-old textbooks in Greek religion confirms it's not just for "common" products. (Disclosure: I have nothing whatsoever to do with SnapTell, but I have been consistently impressed with the technology.)
    - conquest 17y ago
      Where did you confirm that these guys use amazon for their product look up? I've been wondering what they use to look up the products and get images, etc.
  - sil3ntmac 17y ago
    As they state on http://www.redlaser.com/SDK.aspx http://www.redlaser.com/SDK.aspx : "WARNING: 10/14/2009 The RedLaser SDK currently uses an unpublished function to access video frames. Very recently, others have indicated that this will likely lead to rejection of any application using this function, including any application with the RedLaser SDK. We are working hard to find a solution, as we believe there is great potential for this technology on the iPhone. Please take this into account when considering use of the RedLaser SDK." So they probably analyze a lot of different video frames before finding an accurate one.
    - grinich 17y ago
      So they probably analyze a lot of different video frames before finding an accurate one. The main camera app does this too.
  - capablanca 17y ago
    And then there's that hack where you get two similar frames and interpolate and generate a higher resolution image.
- jeffpowers 17y ago
  Actually ZXing is a very very small part of RedLaser. We are thinking about kicking back our C++ port to the community!
jamesbressi 17y ago
Very interesting to note that as the popularity of these types of apps rise, so will brick-and-mortar retailers awareness and deterrent of them. How? Many retailers do not allow pictures to be taken in their stores, something that is very loosely enforced, but is enforced nonetheless. One time I needed to take a pic of the description of a product in Home Depot so I wouldn't forget. Told the associate that and he said we don't allow pictures in our store, regardless of the reason. -- I took it anyway ;) Now, with everything else facing retailers, especially the cost of payroll, I doubt they will fight too hard, but don't be surprised if it comes up in their training of employees more often and encourage those employees to enforce it more often.
- jrockway 17y ago
  I took it anyway That is the correct way to deal with the situation. If they ask you to leave, just buy whatever you were in the store for at half the price at Amazon. You don't need them, they need you.
- amackera 17y ago
  I don't know how the iPhone apps like this work, but the Barcode Scanner for Android doesn't take a picture. You just hover your camera over the barcode and it figures it out from the preview. I suppose it's technically taking a picture, but you could argue that you're not pressing the camera button, so you're not really taking a picture.
  - malaxeur 17y ago
    It doesn't take a picture. The RedLaser SDK uses an underground API to access the camera's video frames, which is technically not allowed but overlooked for RedLaser?
- jakep36 17y ago
  I doubt that I would continue shopping at a store if they kicked me out for taking a picture of the barcode on a product.
patio11 17y ago
Sorry, I've been in the land of cellular milk and honey for a while: is barcode scanning new and exciting still in the US? I remember having it on a free (subsidized) bar phone 7 years ago here.
thorax 17y ago
I've been using the jailbroken Red Laser for a while-- it's accurate but not really "impossibly accurate". I spend a lot of times looking awkward trying to position products if the lighting or package shininess isn't just right. I've had it misread codes before, too.
ihumanable 17y ago
My android phone has been able to do this for about 2 years now
- bockris 17y ago
  I just tried scanning their test barcode off the screen with my G1 and it worked fine.
hapless 17y ago
Their marketing material reminds me of CueCat. Yup. Barcodes are the future. Any day now. "Query into a sea of information." http://www.redlaser.com/Next.aspx http://www.redlaser.com/Next.aspx http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuecat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuecat
- bmalicoat 17y ago
  Ha, I had and loved 2 CueCats. If nothing else it was great to get free scanning hardware. Some cool projects were done with them at the time.
- veemjeem 17y ago
  The main issue of the cuecat is that every time you needed to scan something, you wouldn't have your computer around to scan it. Plus the scanning on that cuecat thing was highly annoying, it didn't work on some types of packaging and it required you to put the device up close and slowly scan across it. Sometimes I felt like I could type in the UPC code faster.
bh23ha 17y ago
Their video shows people scanning bags of chips and jars of food and plastic containers. Wouldn't it have made more sense to scan more expensive items, electronics perhaps?
tjstankus 17y ago
I use RedLaser a bit and the scanning works better when I use the macro lens of my Clarifi case (http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/clarifi http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/clarifi). Note: I'm not associated with Griffin in any way. Just thought I'd share this tip.
crux_ 17y ago
Free app idea that I don't have the time to write... coupon-o-matic. 1) scan coupon barcodes, ideally using video (1-2 seconds per full page of coupons in one of those mailers?), beeping only for those you ought to keep based on what you buy and/or how good of a coupon it is. 2) automatically generate shopping list, based on coupons + what you normally buy. 3) Profit! (Well, less cost; potentially much less cost, given how many coupons there are out there, doubling, store coupons matching mfg ones, etc.) 3a) Optional: scan product barcodes as you're shopping, automatically crossing them off the list, indicating the coupon savings you should get, and also reordering the list based on what grocery department you're in...
- veemjeem 17y ago
  It's too bad that the iphone screen doesn't scan via the laser barcode readers, otherwise it would be great to just show the coupon on screen.

43 points by stakent 17y ago

Interesting that it uses the zxing library [1] which doesn't support EAN/UPC yet (on iPhone) and they have written EAN/UPC scanning and haven't been kind enough to donate the code back to zxing. I guess that would remove their developer license revenue stream [2]. I assume they use Amazon to get EAN->item mapping which is against the amazon TOS. If they don't I love to know what they do use. [1] - http://code.google.com/p/zxing/ http://code.google.com/p/zxing/ [2] - http://redlaser.com/SDK.aspx http://redlaser.com/SDK.aspx

ZeroGravitas 17y ago
I thought the iPhone didn't support those kind of barcodes due to physics based limitations of the camera/lens. If they're doing something really clever to read these barcodes it makes some sense to not just give it away. The Apache licence does give them that option.
- davepeck 17y ago
  All iPhones have good enough optics to detect 2D barcodes like QR Code. Linear barcodes like UPC were trickier until the iPhone 3GS, which has variable focus camera hardware that also admits direct access to camera frames. On the 3GS, barcode scanning is a cake walk. There are many surprising things about RedLaser's success, but technology isn't one of them. I agree with OP that apparent violations of licensing (access to Amazon.com via mobile is not allowed) are surprising. Most surprising to me is how well RedLaser has sold given that barcode scanning was antiquated over a year ago by products like SnapTell. Why scan a UPC code when you can just take a picture of the cover of a book and have the product found just as fast, with as good or better accuracy? No matter if your photo is blurry, or badly lit, or out of focus, or only grabs a part of the book's cover...
  - dminor 17y ago
    I'm surprised it's selling at all. Aren't there any decent free barcode apps for the iPhone?
  - jodrellblank 17y ago
    The picture on the redlaser homepage shows someone scanning a packet of Quaker Oats. Does SnapTell handle food/drink/other supermarket goods?
  - ErrantX 17y ago
    Why scan a UPC code when you can just take a picture of the cover of a book and have the product found just as fast Surely the error rate of that compared to bar codes is much higher. For common products Im sure it works just as well but bar code scanning doesn't degrade for edge cases in the same way.
    - davepeck 17y ago
      You should try it. It is remarkably great, and while I can't speak to error rates I believe that it is on par or better than a good camera-based scanner. Also: using SnapTell with my decades-old textbooks in Greek religion confirms it's not just for "common" products. (Disclosure: I have nothing whatsoever to do with SnapTell, but I have been consistently impressed with the technology.)
  - conquest 17y ago
    Where did you confirm that these guys use amazon for their product look up? I've been wondering what they use to look up the products and get images, etc.
- sil3ntmac 17y ago
  As they state on http://www.redlaser.com/SDK.aspx http://www.redlaser.com/SDK.aspx : "WARNING: 10/14/2009 The RedLaser SDK currently uses an unpublished function to access video frames. Very recently, others have indicated that this will likely lead to rejection of any application using this function, including any application with the RedLaser SDK. We are working hard to find a solution, as we believe there is great potential for this technology on the iPhone. Please take this into account when considering use of the RedLaser SDK." So they probably analyze a lot of different video frames before finding an accurate one.
  - grinich 17y ago
    So they probably analyze a lot of different video frames before finding an accurate one. The main camera app does this too.
- capablanca 17y ago
  And then there's that hack where you get two similar frames and interpolate and generate a higher resolution image.
jeffpowers 17y ago
Actually ZXing is a very very small part of RedLaser. We are thinking about kicking back our C++ port to the community!

jamesbressi 17y ago

Very interesting to note that as the popularity of these types of apps rise, so will brick-and-mortar retailers awareness and deterrent of them. How? Many retailers do not allow pictures to be taken in their stores, something that is very loosely enforced, but is enforced nonetheless. One time I needed to take a pic of the description of a product in Home Depot so I wouldn't forget. Told the associate that and he said we don't allow pictures in our store, regardless of the reason. -- I took it anyway ;) Now, with everything else facing retailers, especially the cost of payroll, I doubt they will fight too hard, but don't be surprised if it comes up in their training of employees more often and encourage those employees to enforce it more often.

jrockway 17y ago
I took it anyway That is the correct way to deal with the situation. If they ask you to leave, just buy whatever you were in the store for at half the price at Amazon. You don't need them, they need you.
amackera 17y ago
I don't know how the iPhone apps like this work, but the Barcode Scanner for Android doesn't take a picture. You just hover your camera over the barcode and it figures it out from the preview. I suppose it's technically taking a picture, but you could argue that you're not pressing the camera button, so you're not really taking a picture.
- malaxeur 17y ago
  It doesn't take a picture. The RedLaser SDK uses an underground API to access the camera's video frames, which is technically not allowed but overlooked for RedLaser?
jakep36 17y ago
I doubt that I would continue shopping at a store if they kicked me out for taking a picture of the barcode on a product.

patio11 17y ago

Sorry, I've been in the land of cellular milk and honey for a while: is barcode scanning new and exciting still in the US? I remember having it on a free (subsidized) bar phone 7 years ago here.

thorax 17y ago

I've been using the jailbroken Red Laser for a while-- it's accurate but not really "impossibly accurate". I spend a lot of times looking awkward trying to position products if the lighting or package shininess isn't just right. I've had it misread codes before, too.

ihumanable 17y ago

My android phone has been able to do this for about 2 years now

bockris 17y ago
I just tried scanning their test barcode off the screen with my G1 and it worked fine.

hapless 17y ago

Their marketing material reminds me of CueCat. Yup. Barcodes are the future. Any day now. "Query into a sea of information." http://www.redlaser.com/Next.aspx http://www.redlaser.com/Next.aspx http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuecat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuecat

bmalicoat 17y ago
Ha, I had and loved 2 CueCats. If nothing else it was great to get free scanning hardware. Some cool projects were done with them at the time.
veemjeem 17y ago
The main issue of the cuecat is that every time you needed to scan something, you wouldn't have your computer around to scan it. Plus the scanning on that cuecat thing was highly annoying, it didn't work on some types of packaging and it required you to put the device up close and slowly scan across it. Sometimes I felt like I could type in the UPC code faster.

bh23ha 17y ago

Their video shows people scanning bags of chips and jars of food and plastic containers. Wouldn't it have made more sense to scan more expensive items, electronics perhaps?

tjstankus 17y ago

I use RedLaser a bit and the scanning works better when I use the macro lens of my Clarifi case (http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/clarifi http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/clarifi). Note: I'm not associated with Griffin in any way. Just thought I'd share this tip.

crux_ 17y ago

Free app idea that I don't have the time to write... coupon-o-matic. 1) scan coupon barcodes, ideally using video (1-2 seconds per full page of coupons in one of those mailers?), beeping only for those you ought to keep based on what you buy and/or how good of a coupon it is. 2) automatically generate shopping list, based on coupons + what you normally buy. 3) Profit! (Well, less cost; potentially much less cost, given how many coupons there are out there, doubling, store coupons matching mfg ones, etc.) 3a) Optional: scan product barcodes as you're shopping, automatically crossing them off the list, indicating the coupon savings you should get, and also reordering the list based on what grocery department you're in...

veemjeem 17y ago
It's too bad that the iphone screen doesn't scan via the laser barcode readers, otherwise it would be great to just show the coupon on screen.