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You are already doing that in a normal template. Let us say you are building a shopping cart. The template will contain logic like an iteration over what has c

by cc81 12y ago

You are already doing that in a normal template. Let us say you are building a shopping cart. The template will contain logic like an iteration over what has currently been put in the basket. And maybe some condition that if the basket is empty you should show a friendly string instead. Then you have some additional logic in a js file that will collapse the list of items if the user does not want to see everything. This is usually done by using a id/class or html element to grab on to. The idea behind React is that you put all possible states and ways the view can render in a component. You still would (generally) not have actual logic in it; like grabbing data from the server or calculating stuff. It is different yes but I think it is a neat idea. We will have to see if it is a viable path forward but I think this "rethinking best practices" is really good and has already influenced the rest of the frameworks quite a lot.

timepiece 12y ago
The main difference is that the logic in template files is the guest here while the markup is the host. We're used to include presentation info in <style> tags and code in <script> tags. So, it is not really a great deal of change to include template language within our content even though I still prefer logic-less or minimal logic template languages over full blown ones to avoid turning web pages into a whole mess. But the problem with React is they are not being honest with marketing their technology. They claim that their approach to blending everything together as "separation of concerns " and some of their evangelists had even the nerve to claim that their approach is the only true way to best practices and that we have been doing it wrong all this time. So, it turned from product evangelism to pure propaganda for them. If they were forthcoming about it from the get go "Hey guys, we know that violates SoC but you guys we'll make up in terms of productivity gains and speed what you will give up in maintenance and readability" but instead they keep pushing their propaganda and people seem to eat it up.
- cc81 12y ago
  It is still mixing presentation with logic if you use a template file. So why do you think it is alright to violate SoC in that case? They have been very detailed with what you get with React and their first presentation was even called "Rethinking best practices". It does not violate separation of concerns. For me it is the opposite and you actually have real separation of concerns instead of separation of technologies. And even if my project is pretty young it feels like it will be easier to maintain. How often don't you have DOM manipulation (hiding or showing a div) in the same Javascript file as some actual logic. How is that separated concerns?
  - timepiece 12y ago
    It is still mixing presentation with logic if you use a template file. So why do you think it is alright to violate SoC in that case? I am not puritan or dogmatic. That's what I have been trying to convey here. I'm pragmatic to the core but I am no propagandist. If I was asked if template languages violate SoC, I would not hesitate to reply "SURE" but I'm keeping to a minimum and I'm using logic-less flavors instead. But reinterpreting SoC as SoT and trying to evade admitting that you guys at fault is not really something to commend you on. Too much revisionism and propaganda for my taste.

by cc81 12y ago

timepiece 12y ago

The main difference is that the logic in template files is the guest here while the markup is the host. We're used to include presentation info in <style> tags and code in <script> tags. So, it is not really a great deal of change to include template language within our content even though I still prefer logic-less or minimal logic template languages over full blown ones to avoid turning web pages into a whole mess. But the problem with React is they are not being honest with marketing their technology. They claim that their approach to blending everything together as "separation of concerns " and some of their evangelists had even the nerve to claim that their approach is the only true way to best practices and that we have been doing it wrong all this time. So, it turned from product evangelism to pure propaganda for them. If they were forthcoming about it from the get go "Hey guys, we know that violates SoC but you guys we'll make up in terms of productivity gains and speed what you will give up in maintenance and readability" but instead they keep pushing their propaganda and people seem to eat it up.

cc81 12y ago
It is still mixing presentation with logic if you use a template file. So why do you think it is alright to violate SoC in that case? They have been very detailed with what you get with React and their first presentation was even called "Rethinking best practices". It does not violate separation of concerns. For me it is the opposite and you actually have real separation of concerns instead of separation of technologies. And even if my project is pretty young it feels like it will be easier to maintain. How often don't you have DOM manipulation (hiding or showing a div) in the same Javascript file as some actual logic. How is that separated concerns?
- timepiece 12y ago
  It is still mixing presentation with logic if you use a template file. So why do you think it is alright to violate SoC in that case? I am not puritan or dogmatic. That's what I have been trying to convey here. I'm pragmatic to the core but I am no propagandist. If I was asked if template languages violate SoC, I would not hesitate to reply "SURE" but I'm keeping to a minimum and I'm using logic-less flavors instead. But reinterpreting SoC as SoT and trying to evade admitting that you guys at fault is not really something to commend you on. Too much revisionism and propaganda for my taste.