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How depressing is it that the US prison population has become so large there are industries around not just the running of prisons, but the needs of the inmates

How depressing is it that the US prison population has become so large there are industries around not just the running of prisons, but the needs of the inmates themselves? The US seems to be completely OK with locking people up for anything and everything.

fapjacks 12y ago
If by "the US" here you mean "the US government", then yes. Otherwise, no, most people in the United States in fact do see a problem with our enormous prison population. If the prison population per capita is so much higher than it is in other countries (and it is), most Americans can recognize that this is indicative of a problem with the justice system much more than a problem with the American people.
- hydrogen18 12y ago
  The US government is elected by its citizens, although the US President is elected via a labyrinthine political process. I haven't seen any reform to the legal system in the past decade. So even if the problem is seen, there does not seem to be any attempt to elect politicians that will do something about the problem.
  - freehunter 12y ago
    Politicians are elected on so many different issues that it's really hard to get enough people to care enough about one specific thing in order to have elections actually mean something. Fictional numbers: 90% of the population cares about Issue X, but on a scale of 1-10 in how important it is to them, it's a 3. Meanwhile, 45% of the population cares about Issue Y, but to them it's a 10. Issue Y is what people will choose their politicians for. It's natural selection. I still have an appendix because, while it's useless at best and dangerous at worst, it's never killed enough people to make it a threat to the survival of the human race. Likewise, people are going to vote on war, abortion, religion, economics, civil rights, etc. They care about the prison population... they just care about other things more. Not to mention that fixing the prison overpopulation issue isn't just passing or repealing one law. It's a multitude of laws, it filters from Congress through the judicial system to the police officers. See how long it's taken to get marijuana decriminalized in just a handful of states? Now that's just one injust thing that people get sent to prison for in the US. Trying to fix the rest of them will take even longer. You don't get elected on "reducing the prison population".
    - hydrogen18 12y ago
      You just described the problem exactly. Instead of getting elected based on principled issues such as "America's prison population is out of control. We should reform the justice system to easier for citizens to understand", the only way to get elected is target some special interest group. You stand a better chance of getting elected on some relatively unknown issue that is relevant in a handful of people's lives than something based on principles. The majority of Americans do not care at all about politics. Ignorance is a rational choice in the face of the enormity of the American Federal government alone. They don't care that if you started reading the Federal Register for last year today, you would die before you finished. They don't care that if you tried to be a good citizen and understand just the tax codes that apply to you, you'd never figure it out because it changes faster than you can learn it.
- SwellJoe 12y ago
  And, yet, "tough on crime" politicians do remarkably well, particularly in polls on issues related to crime.
  - trhway 12y ago
    add to that that the most powerful union in pretty much any state is the prison guards union... The union's interest is obvious. Just several days ago heard on the radio about NY prison guard union opposing reform which would decrease the number of situations where juniors are charged as adults.
  - EliRivers 12y ago
    It's difficult to be tough on crime, but you can be tough on criminals instead and most voters don't notice it's not the same thing.
- mhurron 12y ago
  > most people in the United States in fact do see a problem with our enormous prison population [citation needed] because no, that goes completely against my experience.
  - fapjacks 12y ago
    Is your experience having meaningful conversations with Americans about the problem? Most conversations I have that drill down deeper than surface anecdote and superficial one-liners end with most people agreeing that our prison population (and its corresponding industry) is getting out of hand. This is something even relatively uneducated and ignorant people can see. I'm interested to hear what your experience includes.
    - mhurron 12y ago
      My experience is people generally believe those in prison deserve to be in prison. That there are so many in prison because so many are breaking the law. That the US is a dangerous place and arrest indicates guilt. These people also believe that crime ridden parts are crime ridden because they're full of blacks and once a few black people move into an area they needed to add and change locks on their doors because B&E's were going to go up to fuel their drug problem. That the prison population is majority black makes complete sense to them. Is it possible that you are talking to people that already agree with you, or at lest people younger than say 40ish? Much of the above comes from people I would never choose to associate with, but through marriage and moving to a different part of the US I have been blessed with being able to listen to some absolute bullshit. Then I moved to a larger city, and heard less of it. As pointed out above, one of the easiest ways to get votes for either party is to be tough on crime. One of the worst things you can do when running for office is to appear weak or lenient. These wouldn't be such a great go-to tactic if the population in general thought they had a runaway problem in the prison system.

fapjacks 12y ago

If by "the US" here you mean "the US government", then yes. Otherwise, no, most people in the United States in fact do see a problem with our enormous prison population. If the prison population per capita is so much higher than it is in other countries (and it is), most Americans can recognize that this is indicative of a problem with the justice system much more than a problem with the American people.

hydrogen18 12y ago
The US government is elected by its citizens, although the US President is elected via a labyrinthine political process. I haven't seen any reform to the legal system in the past decade. So even if the problem is seen, there does not seem to be any attempt to elect politicians that will do something about the problem.
- freehunter 12y ago
  Politicians are elected on so many different issues that it's really hard to get enough people to care enough about one specific thing in order to have elections actually mean something. Fictional numbers: 90% of the population cares about Issue X, but on a scale of 1-10 in how important it is to them, it's a 3. Meanwhile, 45% of the population cares about Issue Y, but to them it's a 10. Issue Y is what people will choose their politicians for. It's natural selection. I still have an appendix because, while it's useless at best and dangerous at worst, it's never killed enough people to make it a threat to the survival of the human race. Likewise, people are going to vote on war, abortion, religion, economics, civil rights, etc. They care about the prison population... they just care about other things more. Not to mention that fixing the prison overpopulation issue isn't just passing or repealing one law. It's a multitude of laws, it filters from Congress through the judicial system to the police officers. See how long it's taken to get marijuana decriminalized in just a handful of states? Now that's just one injust thing that people get sent to prison for in the US. Trying to fix the rest of them will take even longer. You don't get elected on "reducing the prison population".
  - hydrogen18 12y ago
    You just described the problem exactly. Instead of getting elected based on principled issues such as "America's prison population is out of control. We should reform the justice system to easier for citizens to understand", the only way to get elected is target some special interest group. You stand a better chance of getting elected on some relatively unknown issue that is relevant in a handful of people's lives than something based on principles. The majority of Americans do not care at all about politics. Ignorance is a rational choice in the face of the enormity of the American Federal government alone. They don't care that if you started reading the Federal Register for last year today, you would die before you finished. They don't care that if you tried to be a good citizen and understand just the tax codes that apply to you, you'd never figure it out because it changes faster than you can learn it.
SwellJoe 12y ago
And, yet, "tough on crime" politicians do remarkably well, particularly in polls on issues related to crime.
- trhway 12y ago
  add to that that the most powerful union in pretty much any state is the prison guards union... The union's interest is obvious. Just several days ago heard on the radio about NY prison guard union opposing reform which would decrease the number of situations where juniors are charged as adults.
- EliRivers 12y ago
  It's difficult to be tough on crime, but you can be tough on criminals instead and most voters don't notice it's not the same thing.
mhurron 12y ago
> most people in the United States in fact do see a problem with our enormous prison population [citation needed] because no, that goes completely against my experience.
- fapjacks 12y ago
  Is your experience having meaningful conversations with Americans about the problem? Most conversations I have that drill down deeper than surface anecdote and superficial one-liners end with most people agreeing that our prison population (and its corresponding industry) is getting out of hand. This is something even relatively uneducated and ignorant people can see. I'm interested to hear what your experience includes.
  - mhurron 12y ago
    My experience is people generally believe those in prison deserve to be in prison. That there are so many in prison because so many are breaking the law. That the US is a dangerous place and arrest indicates guilt. These people also believe that crime ridden parts are crime ridden because they're full of blacks and once a few black people move into an area they needed to add and change locks on their doors because B&E's were going to go up to fuel their drug problem. That the prison population is majority black makes complete sense to them. Is it possible that you are talking to people that already agree with you, or at lest people younger than say 40ish? Much of the above comes from people I would never choose to associate with, but through marriage and moving to a different part of the US I have been blessed with being able to listen to some absolute bullshit. Then I moved to a larger city, and heard less of it. As pointed out above, one of the easiest ways to get votes for either party is to be tough on crime. One of the worst things you can do when running for office is to appear weak or lenient. These wouldn't be such a great go-to tactic if the population in general thought they had a runaway problem in the prison system.