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I saw the name and my desire to read it plummeted. The same person wrote http://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun http://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-

by bau5 12y ago

I saw the name and my desire to read it plummeted. The same person wrote http://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun http://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun which led to one of the most talented developers of node core and libuv leaving the project for a while.

rubiquity 12y ago
What relevance does that have to this? It's sad that your post is even being upvoted.
stuaxo 12y ago
Wow, bloody hell - hadn't read that before.
- cookiecaper 12y ago
  Me either. Wondering how I missed all that drama but not particularly sad I did.
codygman 12y ago
The power of a pronoun is a great article, if anything him writing it should be a plus. The only way it is a negative is if you feel gendered pronouns don't further sexism, but I don't see how you could support that argument.
- crazy1van 12y ago
  Does Joyent refuse to hire speakers of Spanish, French, Italian, Hindi, or any of the other dozens of languages that have gender throughout the entire grammar?
  - nosequel 12y ago
    You are missing the entire point. It is one thing to not allow gender pronouns (what you are suggesting) versus punishing someone who specifically set out to change gender-neutral pronouns into male dominated ones (the Joyent case). REAL BIG difference.
    - ssmoot 12y ago
      Rolling back a commit is punishing, but saying you'd fire someone who did so (if they actually worked for you) isn't? That's just not reasonable. Going straight from "teaching moment" to pitch-forks is not going to help anyone accomplish anything productive.
      - bahamat 12y ago
        Quoting Bryan[1]: > It's not that he rejected the pull request...it's that when he was overruled by Isaac some hours later, he unilaterally reverted Isaac's commit. (And, it must be said, sent a very nasty private note to make clear that this was no accident.) Rolling back the commit or disagreeing is and was not the issue. It was his attitude and behavior after reverting the commit. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9041086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9041086
        ssmoot 12y ago
        Where's that note? I thought it was all public. Either way, it's still just an issue of someone being stubborn about a PR that neither helped nor hindered the actual code. If that's a fireable offense in your company, your HR processes are broken. Especially with no management in place to set any expectations on the topic.
nosequel 12y ago
That "most talented developers of node core and libuv" took time out of his day to revert a commit to take a gender neutral pronoun and make it back into a male one. Talented people can be shitbirds also you know.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
geofft 12y ago
Just because someone is "one of the most talented developers" doesn't mean that it's good for them to be part of the community. One of the best things that ever happened to glibc was Ulrich Drepper, far and away glibc's most talented developer, leaving. glibc is a better project for having multiple good people run it instead of one, brilliant, impossible-to-work-with developer in charge.
pencilcode 12y ago
The fact that he wrote it actually wins him points in my book but it's not relevant to this discussion. Kudos to the Joyent team, i've been curious about dtrace for ages but never looked into it thinking i couldn't use it anyway (only use debian based distros at work) - maybe now is the time :)

by bau5 12y ago

rubiquity 12y ago

What relevance does that have to this? It's sad that your post is even being upvoted.

stuaxo 12y ago

Wow, bloody hell - hadn't read that before.

cookiecaper 12y ago
Me either. Wondering how I missed all that drama but not particularly sad I did.

codygman 12y ago

The power of a pronoun is a great article, if anything him writing it should be a plus. The only way it is a negative is if you feel gendered pronouns don't further sexism, but I don't see how you could support that argument.

crazy1van 12y ago
Does Joyent refuse to hire speakers of Spanish, French, Italian, Hindi, or any of the other dozens of languages that have gender throughout the entire grammar?
- nosequel 12y ago
  You are missing the entire point. It is one thing to not allow gender pronouns (what you are suggesting) versus punishing someone who specifically set out to change gender-neutral pronouns into male dominated ones (the Joyent case). REAL BIG difference.
  - ssmoot 12y ago
    Rolling back a commit is punishing, but saying you'd fire someone who did so (if they actually worked for you) isn't? That's just not reasonable. Going straight from "teaching moment" to pitch-forks is not going to help anyone accomplish anything productive.
    - bahamat 12y ago
      Quoting Bryan[1]: > It's not that he rejected the pull request...it's that when he was overruled by Isaac some hours later, he unilaterally reverted Isaac's commit. (And, it must be said, sent a very nasty private note to make clear that this was no accident.) Rolling back the commit or disagreeing is and was not the issue. It was his attitude and behavior after reverting the commit. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9041086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9041086
      - ssmoot 12y ago
        Where's that note? I thought it was all public. Either way, it's still just an issue of someone being stubborn about a PR that neither helped nor hindered the actual code. If that's a fireable offense in your company, your HR processes are broken. Especially with no management in place to set any expectations on the topic.

nosequel 12y ago

That "most talented developers of node core and libuv" took time out of his day to revert a commit to take a gender neutral pronoun and make it back into a male one. Talented people can be shitbirds also you know.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

geofft 12y ago

Just because someone is "one of the most talented developers" doesn't mean that it's good for them to be part of the community. One of the best things that ever happened to glibc was Ulrich Drepper, far and away glibc's most talented developer, leaving. glibc is a better project for having multiple good people run it instead of one, brilliant, impossible-to-work-with developer in charge.

pencilcode 12y ago

The fact that he wrote it actually wins him points in my book but it's not relevant to this discussion. Kudos to the Joyent team, i've been curious about dtrace for ages but never looked into it thinking i couldn't use it anyway (only use debian based distros at work) - maybe now is the time :)