4 ms·

- people vote for cops to track license plates "for security", "for the children", "don't complain if you have nothing to hide" - libertarians complain "you do

- people vote for cops to track license plates "for security", "for the children", "don't complain if you have nothing to hide" - libertarians complain "you don't know who will be in power tomorrow and (mis)use this data or allow for its misuse" - some company comes along and buys the data off the cops because those in power let them. Maybe those in power when the law for collecting this data passed promised that this data wouldn't ever be shared, but now it's someone else or they changed their mind because fuck the people.

rikkus 12y ago
We'll never get clear statistics on this, but at some point it will be possible to start making judgements on whether keeping this data (and making it available to the public) is a net negative or positive. My gut tells me that it's a negative, but my head tells me there is, or will be, no real way to stop it being collected, even if it's not public bodies doing the collection.
- picks_at_nits 12y ago
  > even if it's not public bodies doing the collection There already are private companies that drive around scanning license plates and selling access to the data. One of their “use cases” is selling the data to “repo men.”
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    Are there dedicated vehicles doing it? I had the idea that tow trucks were using the scanners and sharing data, I hadn't heard about anything dedicated to plate scanning. Edit: This article mentions "purpose-built camera cars": http://www.caranddriver.com/features/screen-plate-club-how-license-plate-scanning-compromises-your-privacy-feature http://www.caranddriver.com/features/screen-plate-club-how-l...
  - rikkus 12y ago
    That's the sort of thing I was expecting to happen. Ouch.
- Lawtonfogle 12y ago
  Back when homosexuality was considered really bad, imagine if all this tech had existed. How would history for LGBT rights have been different if we could find and imprison all homosexuals instead of them being able to hide, organize, and fight for their rights?
Zigurd 12y ago
You assume we have representative, legitimate government that can control programs that hide behind "national security."
jacquesm 12y ago
> libertarians complain "you don't know who will be in power tomorrow and (mis)use this data or allow for its misuse" That complaint is definitely not limited to libertarians.
- joshuapants 12y ago
  Maybe not to capital-L Libertarians, card carrying members of the party who buy into an ideology, but I interpreted that statement to mean "civil libertarians." That is to say, people who are concerned with all manner of personal rights but not necessarily members of a specific ideology.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    The price for registering data in government databases that seems innocent at first has been well known since world-war II and was the reason why we had the attack on the Amsterdam registry: http://www.jhm.nl/culture-and-history/amsterdam/plaque-commemorating-the-raid-on-the-registry-office- http://www.jhm.nl/culture-and-history/amsterdam/plaque-comme... Unfortunately by then it was too late and that little box 'religion' on the census forms had done its damage. 10's of thousands of people dead for simply being honest about something the government might have had some good reason for asking but no necessity. It's simply a well documented fact not associated with any 'isms' at this point that you should only store that which you need to store because you can't predict future use or access. That civil libertarians or capital-L libertarians agree with this is nice but it is about as relevant as the fact that they need to eat and breathe as well. It'd be nice if we could simply learn history's lessons but it appears we need to re-live the past over and over again without making much headway. I can see why law-enforcement get all gooey when they realize that they can store all movement of all vehicles pretty much indefinitely and such sentiments ought to be stamped ruthlessly into the ground whenever they pop up, the temptation is just too large to leave oversight to the services that are in a position to implement such data banks.

rikkus 12y ago

We'll never get clear statistics on this, but at some point it will be possible to start making judgements on whether keeping this data (and making it available to the public) is a net negative or positive. My gut tells me that it's a negative, but my head tells me there is, or will be, no real way to stop it being collected, even if it's not public bodies doing the collection.

picks_at_nits 12y ago
> even if it's not public bodies doing the collection There already are private companies that drive around scanning license plates and selling access to the data. One of their “use cases” is selling the data to “repo men.”
- maxerickson 12y ago
  Are there dedicated vehicles doing it? I had the idea that tow trucks were using the scanners and sharing data, I hadn't heard about anything dedicated to plate scanning. Edit: This article mentions "purpose-built camera cars": http://www.caranddriver.com/features/screen-plate-club-how-license-plate-scanning-compromises-your-privacy-feature http://www.caranddriver.com/features/screen-plate-club-how-l...
- rikkus 12y ago
  That's the sort of thing I was expecting to happen. Ouch.
Lawtonfogle 12y ago
Back when homosexuality was considered really bad, imagine if all this tech had existed. How would history for LGBT rights have been different if we could find and imprison all homosexuals instead of them being able to hide, organize, and fight for their rights?

Zigurd 12y ago

You assume we have representative, legitimate government that can control programs that hide behind "national security."

jacquesm 12y ago

> libertarians complain "you don't know who will be in power tomorrow and (mis)use this data or allow for its misuse" That complaint is definitely not limited to libertarians.

joshuapants 12y ago
Maybe not to capital-L Libertarians, card carrying members of the party who buy into an ideology, but I interpreted that statement to mean "civil libertarians." That is to say, people who are concerned with all manner of personal rights but not necessarily members of a specific ideology.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  The price for registering data in government databases that seems innocent at first has been well known since world-war II and was the reason why we had the attack on the Amsterdam registry: http://www.jhm.nl/culture-and-history/amsterdam/plaque-commemorating-the-raid-on-the-registry-office- http://www.jhm.nl/culture-and-history/amsterdam/plaque-comme... Unfortunately by then it was too late and that little box 'religion' on the census forms had done its damage. 10's of thousands of people dead for simply being honest about something the government might have had some good reason for asking but no necessity. It's simply a well documented fact not associated with any 'isms' at this point that you should only store that which you need to store because you can't predict future use or access. That civil libertarians or capital-L libertarians agree with this is nice but it is about as relevant as the fact that they need to eat and breathe as well. It'd be nice if we could simply learn history's lessons but it appears we need to re-live the past over and over again without making much headway. I can see why law-enforcement get all gooey when they realize that they can store all movement of all vehicles pretty much indefinitely and such sentiments ought to be stamped ruthlessly into the ground whenever they pop up, the temptation is just too large to leave oversight to the services that are in a position to implement such data banks.