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Having worked as a teacher in Japan for 5 years, I really take odds with this story. Japan is really, really different from the west. Take the survey about be

Having worked as a teacher in Japan for 5 years, I really take odds with this story. Japan is really, really different from the west. Take the survey about being happy with yourself -- I'm actually surprised that half the Japanese people surveyed actually said they were. It doesn't mean that Japanese youth are depressed. You just don't say that you are happy with yourself because it can limit your development, it makes you look vain, etc, etc. It frustrates me to no end because this lack of understanding perpetuates really hurtful stereotypes. Things are not perfect here, of course, but this reporting is absolutely off the mark. Japanese people are no more soulless, depressed automatons than Americans are psychopathic mass murderers. Please don't measure cultures using a yardstick from your own culture. Do not extrapolate from peculiar societal problems into thinking that there is an overall systemic failure. Different cultures have different problems and different ways of dealing with them. This kind of "journalism" is voyeuristic at best and hate mongering at worst.

WhitneyLand 12y ago
Thank you for posting because I was wondering how much of it is generally accepted vs a teased out hypothesis by one author. I didn't see it as voyeuristic or hateful, but it's definetely something that should be portrayed clearly as either reporting or opinion.
RogerL 12y ago
The author is Japanese, the survey was conducted by the Japanese government.
- mikekchar 12y ago
  Probably I should pause before I post stuff. However, if I could probably write a very critical article about Canadian culture (being a Canadian) and have it printed by a Japanese news service. I really don't think it would be helpful to anyone.
  - gress 12y ago
    Would your article be based on research you did with the support of the Canadian government?
  - RogerL 12y ago
    It is not critical in the sense of being negative. It points out a known [1] problem and the steps that the Japanese government is taking to combat that problem (earlier English education, etc). Anyway, I found the article helpful, perhaps you didn't because of the time you spent in the country? [1] For example, it was one of Naoto Kan's priorities while Prime minister to increase jobs to help stem suicides. Google 'japanese student depression' for example, yields plenty of first page links making similar claims. I'd agree that many of the links don't rise to the level of hard science, and welcome alternative viewpoints and data, but this is not just some random article with one person's made up hypothesis.
  - duaneb 12y ago
    I don't think this is critical of Japanese culture so much as it's inherently concerning that it (appears) such a problem there.
byuu 12y ago
There are an inordinate amount of amazing things about Japan and the Japanese; and it's why I've spent over a decade studying the culture and language. But it's not really fair to use only rose-colored glasses. There are serious issues with extreme conformity and group-think in Japan. Yes, there's exceptions to everything, but overall it's far more extreme there than it is elsewhere. Expectations for how you are supposed to behave and interact are much more strict; and that sort of thing really does rob people of their individualism, to some extent. And you can see this by way of Japan having the seventh highest suicide rate in the world; with only two countries significantly higher than theirs. Surely, every country has its problems; but that doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about any of them. > You just don't say that you are happy with yourself because it can limit your development, it makes you look vain, etc, etc. Tell that to the producers of the TV show Cool Japan :P (For those who haven't seen it, it's a show that brings in tourists from around the world to gawk about Japanese exceptionalism in all things; while the Japanese hosts inquire why other countries are so backward by comparison. You probably think I'm exaggerating; but I can assure you, it's actually even worse.)
- mikekchar 12y ago
  Cool Japan definitely makes me cringe. That is a great example of stuff that I really would rather not happen. Or if you look at the English version of the Japan Times which seems to want to attract foreign readership by slamming all the negative aspects of Japanese culture. There is unfortunately a lot of money in this kind of thing. I probably should never have posted what I did. That kind of poor journalism/entertainment which exploits "we're better than them" attitudes exists everywhere in the world. A random rant in HN is not going to change that. If anything it simply polarizes opinion and invites the trolls to control the stage. I wish I could think of an effective strategy to change opinions on this topic.
  - byuu 12y ago
    Oh, definitely. Nationalism is a problem everywhere. I think it stems from sheltered lives and closed-mindedness. The best thing we can do is to tear down the unbelievably fierce restrictions on immigration that exist in literally every first world country. You shouldn't have to be extremely lucky (land an ESL teacher spot), rich (degree/investor), or marry someone to live abroad in the 21st century. We should have open borders. I don't mind your post and wasn't trying to be a contrarian. Just that I really do worry about this issue there. But being honest, even after having studied Japan since high school, I still barely understand some parts of their culture. For one example, 遠慮 (enryo) is a concept I'll never comprehend. They say it shows humility to decline at first; but to me, it feels like it turns the tables and makes the gift-giver feel like the one that has to forcefully impose. It would make me feel bad to beg someone to accept my gift. I'm willing to go pretty far to "act like the Romans", but this is one thing I couldn't bring myself to do.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
dasil003 12y ago
> Please don't measure cultures using a yardstick from your own culture. Setting aside the particulars of this article, I take issue with this idea. External cultural observation and comparison is invaluable for bringing new perspectives to internal problems. That's not to say the outsider's perspective is more correct, but merely that it is illuminating in a way that is difficult to achieve from an ensconced position inside an echo chamber.
PopsiclePete 12y ago
My old country, Bulgaria, consistently ranks as one of the unhappiest places in Europe based on some random surveys somebody did. Funny thing is, you ask 9/10 Bulgarians how they're feeling, the "traditional" way to reply to that, even if you won the lottery, is "oh you know.....so-so". To say "great" or "wonderful" is seen as inviting bad luck into your life, basically.

WhitneyLand 12y ago

Thank you for posting because I was wondering how much of it is generally accepted vs a teased out hypothesis by one author. I didn't see it as voyeuristic or hateful, but it's definetely something that should be portrayed clearly as either reporting or opinion.

RogerL 12y ago

The author is Japanese, the survey was conducted by the Japanese government.

mikekchar 12y ago
Probably I should pause before I post stuff. However, if I could probably write a very critical article about Canadian culture (being a Canadian) and have it printed by a Japanese news service. I really don't think it would be helpful to anyone.
- gress 12y ago
  Would your article be based on research you did with the support of the Canadian government?
- RogerL 12y ago
  It is not critical in the sense of being negative. It points out a known [1] problem and the steps that the Japanese government is taking to combat that problem (earlier English education, etc). Anyway, I found the article helpful, perhaps you didn't because of the time you spent in the country? [1] For example, it was one of Naoto Kan's priorities while Prime minister to increase jobs to help stem suicides. Google 'japanese student depression' for example, yields plenty of first page links making similar claims. I'd agree that many of the links don't rise to the level of hard science, and welcome alternative viewpoints and data, but this is not just some random article with one person's made up hypothesis.
- duaneb 12y ago
  I don't think this is critical of Japanese culture so much as it's inherently concerning that it (appears) such a problem there.

byuu 12y ago

There are an inordinate amount of amazing things about Japan and the Japanese; and it's why I've spent over a decade studying the culture and language. But it's not really fair to use only rose-colored glasses. There are serious issues with extreme conformity and group-think in Japan. Yes, there's exceptions to everything, but overall it's far more extreme there than it is elsewhere. Expectations for how you are supposed to behave and interact are much more strict; and that sort of thing really does rob people of their individualism, to some extent. And you can see this by way of Japan having the seventh highest suicide rate in the world; with only two countries significantly higher than theirs. Surely, every country has its problems; but that doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about any of them. > You just don't say that you are happy with yourself because it can limit your development, it makes you look vain, etc, etc. Tell that to the producers of the TV show Cool Japan :P (For those who haven't seen it, it's a show that brings in tourists from around the world to gawk about Japanese exceptionalism in all things; while the Japanese hosts inquire why other countries are so backward by comparison. You probably think I'm exaggerating; but I can assure you, it's actually even worse.)

mikekchar 12y ago
Cool Japan definitely makes me cringe. That is a great example of stuff that I really would rather not happen. Or if you look at the English version of the Japan Times which seems to want to attract foreign readership by slamming all the negative aspects of Japanese culture. There is unfortunately a lot of money in this kind of thing. I probably should never have posted what I did. That kind of poor journalism/entertainment which exploits "we're better than them" attitudes exists everywhere in the world. A random rant in HN is not going to change that. If anything it simply polarizes opinion and invites the trolls to control the stage. I wish I could think of an effective strategy to change opinions on this topic.
- byuu 12y ago
  Oh, definitely. Nationalism is a problem everywhere. I think it stems from sheltered lives and closed-mindedness. The best thing we can do is to tear down the unbelievably fierce restrictions on immigration that exist in literally every first world country. You shouldn't have to be extremely lucky (land an ESL teacher spot), rich (degree/investor), or marry someone to live abroad in the 21st century. We should have open borders. I don't mind your post and wasn't trying to be a contrarian. Just that I really do worry about this issue there. But being honest, even after having studied Japan since high school, I still barely understand some parts of their culture. For one example, 遠慮 (enryo) is a concept I'll never comprehend. They say it shows humility to decline at first; but to me, it feels like it turns the tables and makes the gift-giver feel like the one that has to forcefully impose. It would make me feel bad to beg someone to accept my gift. I'm willing to go pretty far to "act like the Romans", but this is one thing I couldn't bring myself to do.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

dasil003 12y ago

> Please don't measure cultures using a yardstick from your own culture. Setting aside the particulars of this article, I take issue with this idea. External cultural observation and comparison is invaluable for bringing new perspectives to internal problems. That's not to say the outsider's perspective is more correct, but merely that it is illuminating in a way that is difficult to achieve from an ensconced position inside an echo chamber.

PopsiclePete 12y ago

My old country, Bulgaria, consistently ranks as one of the unhappiest places in Europe based on some random surveys somebody did. Funny thing is, you ask 9/10 Bulgarians how they're feeling, the "traditional" way to reply to that, even if you won the lottery, is "oh you know.....so-so". To say "great" or "wonderful" is seen as inviting bad luck into your life, basically.