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MirageOS Pioneer Projects

55 points by zem 12y ago

forgottenacc56 12y ago
It's a pity all this effort is going into Ocaml which seems something of a dead end. If the core language was Rust or Go then momentum would really pick up.
- rwmj 12y ago
  OCaml's been around for 30 years, and will be around for many decades more. It's not this year's fad.
  - forgottenacc56 12y ago
    It's not about fad. It's about providing unikernel technology to the mainstream development world where it's actually needed. Mirageos is not going to drive uptake of ocaml in any big way. It makes more sense to give the people the tools they need to get the job done, like some less arcane language than ocaml. As you point out, it's had 30 years to catch on but hasn't.
    - amirmc 12y ago
      > "Mirageos is not going to drive uptake of ocaml in any big way" Right, because Unix had no effect on the number of people working in C. > "It makes more sense to give the people the tools they need to get the job done" MirageOS takes a clean-slate approach and it's not exactly a secret. There are evidently significant benefits to this, as well as trade-offs. There are other unikernel implementations out there that have prioritised legacy over safety and composability.
    - reycharles 12y ago
      You mention Go as an alternative. I'm curious how Go is any less arcane. http://www.quora.com/Do-you-feel-that-golang-is-ugly/answer/Tikhon-Jelvis?share=1 http://www.quora.com/Do-you-feel-that-golang-is-ugly/answer/...
    - mercurial 12y ago
      > less arcane language than ocaml There is nothing particularly arcane about OCaml. The fact that it's not a mainstream language is not a good indicator of its complexity.
- amirmc 12y ago
  > "... which seems something of a dead end." Based on what, exactly? If anything 'all this effort' should indicate the complete opposite of what you state.
  - forgottenacc56 12y ago
    Unikernels won't take off till they can be built with languages that aren't ocaml. Sorry if that's not a message you're comfortable with but its there.
    - amirmc 12y ago
      It seems to me that you haven't looked into this space at all. See Table 2 in [1] for a list of other implementations. I'm perfectly happy about how MirageOS is doing and I'm glad there are options that allow people to choose where they make their trade-offs. [1] http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2566628 http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2566628
- gnuvince 12y ago
  I guess all that's left to do is for you to start your own Unikernel project using a technology you feel is more appropriate.
amirmc 12y ago
If any of these prompt you to think of new potential projects that's cool too. Just email the list to discuss it. Also, a few folks raised a question about what the difficulty levels actually mean [1]. If you're new to OCaml then the suggestion is that you pick an area you're already familiar/comfortable with (eg networking, Xen, etc) so that you have some grounding. Otherwise, you're having to learn two things at once. [1] http://openmirage.org/wiki/weekly-2015-02-25#PioneerProjects http://openmirage.org/wiki/weekly-2015-02-25#PioneerProjects
nickysielicki 12y ago
MirageOS is already a thing, I wish they'd pick a new name. http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/139/13949.html http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/139/13949.html
- anonova 12y ago
  Reading the title, I thought it was talking about the calculator shell too!
- alxmdev 12y ago
  Their website is still up: http://www.detachedsolutions.com/mirageos/ http://www.detachedsolutions.com/mirageos/ From the ticalc.org page, "Ranked as 2 on our all-time top downloads list with 1003409 downloads." Over a million downloads over its lifetime, that's incredible. I never realized just how large the calculator homebrew scene was in its heyday.

55 points by zem 12y ago

It's a pity all this effort is going into Ocaml which seems something of a dead end. If the core language was Rust or Go then momentum would really pick up.

rwmj 12y ago
OCaml's been around for 30 years, and will be around for many decades more. It's not this year's fad.
- forgottenacc56 12y ago
  It's not about fad. It's about providing unikernel technology to the mainstream development world where it's actually needed. Mirageos is not going to drive uptake of ocaml in any big way. It makes more sense to give the people the tools they need to get the job done, like some less arcane language than ocaml. As you point out, it's had 30 years to catch on but hasn't.
  - amirmc 12y ago
    > "Mirageos is not going to drive uptake of ocaml in any big way" Right, because Unix had no effect on the number of people working in C. > "It makes more sense to give the people the tools they need to get the job done" MirageOS takes a clean-slate approach and it's not exactly a secret. There are evidently significant benefits to this, as well as trade-offs. There are other unikernel implementations out there that have prioritised legacy over safety and composability.
  - reycharles 12y ago
    You mention Go as an alternative. I'm curious how Go is any less arcane. http://www.quora.com/Do-you-feel-that-golang-is-ugly/answer/Tikhon-Jelvis?share=1 http://www.quora.com/Do-you-feel-that-golang-is-ugly/answer/...
  - mercurial 12y ago
    > less arcane language than ocaml There is nothing particularly arcane about OCaml. The fact that it's not a mainstream language is not a good indicator of its complexity.
amirmc 12y ago
> "... which seems something of a dead end." Based on what, exactly? If anything 'all this effort' should indicate the complete opposite of what you state.
- forgottenacc56 12y ago
  Unikernels won't take off till they can be built with languages that aren't ocaml. Sorry if that's not a message you're comfortable with but its there.
  - amirmc 12y ago
    It seems to me that you haven't looked into this space at all. See Table 2 in [1] for a list of other implementations. I'm perfectly happy about how MirageOS is doing and I'm glad there are options that allow people to choose where they make their trade-offs. [1] http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2566628 http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2566628
gnuvince 12y ago
I guess all that's left to do is for you to start your own Unikernel project using a technology you feel is more appropriate.

amirmc 12y ago

If any of these prompt you to think of new potential projects that's cool too. Just email the list to discuss it. Also, a few folks raised a question about what the difficulty levels actually mean [1]. If you're new to OCaml then the suggestion is that you pick an area you're already familiar/comfortable with (eg networking, Xen, etc) so that you have some grounding. Otherwise, you're having to learn two things at once. [1] http://openmirage.org/wiki/weekly-2015-02-25#PioneerProjects http://openmirage.org/wiki/weekly-2015-02-25#PioneerProjects

nickysielicki 12y ago

MirageOS is already a thing, I wish they'd pick a new name. http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/139/13949.html http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/139/13949.html

anonova 12y ago
Reading the title, I thought it was talking about the calculator shell too!
alxmdev 12y ago
Their website is still up: http://www.detachedsolutions.com/mirageos/ http://www.detachedsolutions.com/mirageos/ From the ticalc.org page, "Ranked as 2 on our all-time top downloads list with 1003409 downloads." Over a million downloads over its lifetime, that's incredible. I never realized just how large the calculator homebrew scene was in its heyday.