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Softer? Ha, you're mischaracterizing this reaction. We got to be assholes towards American Airlines three times in a row, and now we get to insult the other sid

by unalone 17y ago

Softer? Ha, you're mischaracterizing this reaction. We got to be assholes towards American Airlines three times in a row, and now we get to insult the other side. Expect more insulting of AA in the future, too. Though that's tongue-in-cheek, there's a serious cause behind it, which is that we have a community big enough and smart enough to argue both sides. Depending on the source of the article we're commenting on, one side is always louder than others. So on Steve Jobs Is Best CEO, we get more pro-Apple, and on Apple Censored Me, we get more anti-Apple. Smart people on both sides, but each one focusing on a different story. So there're people here who hate AA's site and there're people who think Dustin is pretending a wisdom he doesn't have, and both those people get a place to place their beliefs. I think that's healthy for the community. It lets lurkers see both sides of the discussion. I fear when we become like r/politics on Reddit, where only one side dominates.

kyro 17y ago
Yeah, I get that. People here are just taking cheap shots based on their belief that because Dustin hasn't worked at a big company, his opinion and demand for a better product are invalid. I wonder if people would have said the same had it been a 50yr. old expressing his frustrations just as aggressively. The argument that you need to know about big company to understand why their products are the way they are is a stupid one. I'm sure the majority of AA customers are a lot less knowledgeable than Dustin about these types of things. I guess that makes them more ignorant, which, by people's argument here, should mean they are in a lesser place to express their disappointment. But in reality, they're a customer. Their opinion matters just as much. Also, for the highest voted comment here to open up with "Dustin is an ass" shows that this is far from civilized and intelligent conversation. He's not being judged on the merits of his work, but rather on a personal level. That's low. You idiot. :P
- unalone 17y ago
  I think, actually, that part of the reaction has to do not with Dustin's age but with Dustin himself. The guy's got an irritating ego that's built up a mild dislike in me. He does good work but not great work, and gets disproportionate praise for what he does. This whole series struck me as smug, but not wrong enough that I felt good criticizing him for it. I know I'm not the only person who felt that way. On a low and ugly level, this thread validates those feelings. So I feel better about my wariness and feel more able to talk about it. Is that what the thread should be? Probably not. But that's what's happening and I also don't necesarily think that's a bad thing. Dustin's been asking to be smacked down for half a year, now, and it would have been in poor taste to smack him down in a thread that wasn't specifically critical of him. So arguably it's a little bit better that it's happening here in a more cathartic way, rather than coming in a thread that doesn't warrant such a response. Not the most mature approach, but we're not the most mature community. Nothing wrong with that. You can be smart and educated and still feel the occasional need to be catty. As long as it's not too frequent, I view it as a healthy release.
- potatolicious 17y ago
  "He's not being judged on the merits of his work, but rather on a personal level." To be honest IMHO he made it about himself. By being self-aggrandizing in the original post he distracted from the real usability issues that he found with AA.com and instead made it a vitriolic rant devoid of civility or understanding. Yes, this thread is very much about "Dustin is an ass", and rightfully so - the first blog post is long over, and now we get to address the aftermath of Dustin's tactlessness. It's entirely valid to, at this point, point out how the lack of civility and the hostile tone contributed to solving no problems at all - it's a lesson we can all take home. "I guess that makes them more ignorant, which, by people's argument here, should mean they are in a lesser place to express their disappointment." But that's not what Dustin said. As a designer he claimed that AA could do a complete make-over with a trivial amount of effort, and that the fact that it hasn't been done already points to massive incompetence within the company. He then called for the mass firing of everyone responsible for the website within AA. It's one thing to claim (whether as designer or user) that AA's website sucks, and that there are specific problems with it, etc etc. It's quite another to claim (as a professional designer) that this means incompetence, or that doing it right is trivially easy, or that your redesign has covered all the main bases. The former is legitimate complaint or criticism, the latter is arrogant and severely lacking in perspective. As a user you don't need to understand why products are the way they are. As a designer, though, you better damn well understand it. "People here are just taking cheap shots based on their belief that because Dustin hasn't worked at a big company, his opinion and demand for a better product are invalid." I ripped into Dustin pretty hard when his redesign was first posted here - I didn't know his age nor his experience in the industry at the time. I don't get the feeling that if he was a scarred veteran of the industry that he'd get it any easier. Arrogant, smug bullshit is arrogant, smug bullshit no matter how old or experienced you are.

by unalone 17y ago

kyro 17y ago

Yeah, I get that. People here are just taking cheap shots based on their belief that because Dustin hasn't worked at a big company, his opinion and demand for a better product are invalid. I wonder if people would have said the same had it been a 50yr. old expressing his frustrations just as aggressively. The argument that you need to know about big company to understand why their products are the way they are is a stupid one. I'm sure the majority of AA customers are a lot less knowledgeable than Dustin about these types of things. I guess that makes them more ignorant, which, by people's argument here, should mean they are in a lesser place to express their disappointment. But in reality, they're a customer. Their opinion matters just as much. Also, for the highest voted comment here to open up with "Dustin is an ass" shows that this is far from civilized and intelligent conversation. He's not being judged on the merits of his work, but rather on a personal level. That's low. You idiot. :P

unalone 17y ago
I think, actually, that part of the reaction has to do not with Dustin's age but with Dustin himself. The guy's got an irritating ego that's built up a mild dislike in me. He does good work but not great work, and gets disproportionate praise for what he does. This whole series struck me as smug, but not wrong enough that I felt good criticizing him for it. I know I'm not the only person who felt that way. On a low and ugly level, this thread validates those feelings. So I feel better about my wariness and feel more able to talk about it. Is that what the thread should be? Probably not. But that's what's happening and I also don't necesarily think that's a bad thing. Dustin's been asking to be smacked down for half a year, now, and it would have been in poor taste to smack him down in a thread that wasn't specifically critical of him. So arguably it's a little bit better that it's happening here in a more cathartic way, rather than coming in a thread that doesn't warrant such a response. Not the most mature approach, but we're not the most mature community. Nothing wrong with that. You can be smart and educated and still feel the occasional need to be catty. As long as it's not too frequent, I view it as a healthy release.
potatolicious 17y ago
"He's not being judged on the merits of his work, but rather on a personal level." To be honest IMHO he made it about himself. By being self-aggrandizing in the original post he distracted from the real usability issues that he found with AA.com and instead made it a vitriolic rant devoid of civility or understanding. Yes, this thread is very much about "Dustin is an ass", and rightfully so - the first blog post is long over, and now we get to address the aftermath of Dustin's tactlessness. It's entirely valid to, at this point, point out how the lack of civility and the hostile tone contributed to solving no problems at all - it's a lesson we can all take home. "I guess that makes them more ignorant, which, by people's argument here, should mean they are in a lesser place to express their disappointment." But that's not what Dustin said. As a designer he claimed that AA could do a complete make-over with a trivial amount of effort, and that the fact that it hasn't been done already points to massive incompetence within the company. He then called for the mass firing of everyone responsible for the website within AA. It's one thing to claim (whether as designer or user) that AA's website sucks, and that there are specific problems with it, etc etc. It's quite another to claim (as a professional designer) that this means incompetence, or that doing it right is trivially easy, or that your redesign has covered all the main bases. The former is legitimate complaint or criticism, the latter is arrogant and severely lacking in perspective. As a user you don't need to understand why products are the way they are. As a designer, though, you better damn well understand it. "People here are just taking cheap shots based on their belief that because Dustin hasn't worked at a big company, his opinion and demand for a better product are invalid." I ripped into Dustin pretty hard when his redesign was first posted here - I didn't know his age nor his experience in the industry at the time. I don't get the feeling that if he was a scarred veteran of the industry that he'd get it any easier. Arrogant, smug bullshit is arrogant, smug bullshit no matter how old or experienced you are.