5 ms·

Out of curiosity, how would you rank Singapore against its neighbors Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia?

by jpatokal 12y ago

contingencies 12y ago
Far more totalitarian.
- skinnylatte 12y ago
  Seriously? Have you been to any of these countries?
  - contingencies 12y ago
    Singapore: Yes, 5-10 times between 1989 and 2014. It's gotten a hell of a lot more generic and 1984-like in that time. The character once present been trampled in favor of dystopian public housing for immigrant laborers and a cleanliness. Frankly, last time I was there it gave me the creeps so much I was haunted by the smiley-faced actors in the propaganda-piece on permanent repeat in the airline departure lounge. Thailand: Perhaps 30+ times from 1989 to two weeks ago. My wife (mainland Chinese Muslim) and I lived there for awhile, and our daughter was born there. We can read and write to some extent, speak the language, and have many friends - local and foreign - from all levels of society (journalism, finance, diplomacy, mafias, restaurant and bar operators, media, etc.) including those who have been 'kicked out'. Malaysia: Perhaps 5-10 times from 1989 to a month ago, including smaller islands, though never to Borneo. It has a worrying governmental tendency to trend toward the Singaporean model, however away from KL this is lessened. Many successful Malaysians are either economic migrants to Singapore or operate businesses owned in some way by Singapore-resident straits Chinese. Indonesia: Twice since 2012, but for months at a time spanning the most populous parts of the archipelago. Have had in-depth one-on-one discussions about the history of western relations with its diplomats. Have been invited to attend conferences in its national university. Owing to corruption, it has its issues, but it has preserved a certain admirable diversity that increases as you move east. Sure, they have their problems (eg. deforestation). However, the two faced Singaporean government blames the Singapore-owned palm oil plantations - burned regularly - on Indonesia ... but in fact I've had Singapore-resident Straits Chinese admit to me they own them. What about you, just-arrived 7 point karma naysayer?
    - skinnylatte 12y ago
      I joined because I'm frankly a little amused by some of these comments. More totalitarian: how do you quantify that? I was born and brought up in Singapore and do business in all those countries (tech startup). That sentiment is alien (and not just because I'm Singaporean), it's because Malaysia for example is more totalitarian and is also on the way to becoming a failed state economically and socially. You seem to be reasonably well-versed in the cultural aspects of those countries, but how much of the political institutions do you know — to back up such a claim, anyway? Have you seen Thailand and the junta lately?
      - jpatokal 12y ago
        Dictionary definition: "Totalitarianism is a political system in which the state holds total authority over the society and seeks to control all aspects of public and private life wherever possible." Singapore is pretty much the poster boy for this. Malaysia certainly has aspirations to be as totalitarian as Singapore; however, the government is too incompetent and consumed with in-fighting to actually accomplish it. Thailand is just a garden-variety military dictatorship, the junta hold the levers of power but doesn't really appear to know what to do with them.
      - contingencies 12y ago
        What a surprise that you are Singaporean, lah.
        sleepyhead 12y ago
        Stand back people - expert coming through - this guy knows the local lingo.
        skinnylatte 12y ago
        What a surprise that you're an American who believes that your visits to such locations give you the divine right to tell us off (looking at your ignorant comments in the other threads). And that you would use 'lah' inappropriately.
- nailer 12y ago
  Singapore is authoritarian and corrupt but look at what happened to Anwar Ibrahim in Malaysia.
  - contingencies 12y ago
    Very true. For .sg's tactics, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2oL81Tum3I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2oL81Tum3I and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8rPofi-AUw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8rPofi-AUw
  - skinnylatte 12y ago
    "Corrupt". Care to substantiate that? Singaporean in opposition politics here — desperately wanting to know.

Out of curiosity, how would you rank Singapore against its neighbors Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia?

contingencies 12y ago

Far more totalitarian.

skinnylatte 12y ago
Seriously? Have you been to any of these countries?
- contingencies 12y ago
  Singapore: Yes, 5-10 times between 1989 and 2014. It's gotten a hell of a lot more generic and 1984-like in that time. The character once present been trampled in favor of dystopian public housing for immigrant laborers and a cleanliness. Frankly, last time I was there it gave me the creeps so much I was haunted by the smiley-faced actors in the propaganda-piece on permanent repeat in the airline departure lounge. Thailand: Perhaps 30+ times from 1989 to two weeks ago. My wife (mainland Chinese Muslim) and I lived there for awhile, and our daughter was born there. We can read and write to some extent, speak the language, and have many friends - local and foreign - from all levels of society (journalism, finance, diplomacy, mafias, restaurant and bar operators, media, etc.) including those who have been 'kicked out'. Malaysia: Perhaps 5-10 times from 1989 to a month ago, including smaller islands, though never to Borneo. It has a worrying governmental tendency to trend toward the Singaporean model, however away from KL this is lessened. Many successful Malaysians are either economic migrants to Singapore or operate businesses owned in some way by Singapore-resident straits Chinese. Indonesia: Twice since 2012, but for months at a time spanning the most populous parts of the archipelago. Have had in-depth one-on-one discussions about the history of western relations with its diplomats. Have been invited to attend conferences in its national university. Owing to corruption, it has its issues, but it has preserved a certain admirable diversity that increases as you move east. Sure, they have their problems (eg. deforestation). However, the two faced Singaporean government blames the Singapore-owned palm oil plantations - burned regularly - on Indonesia ... but in fact I've had Singapore-resident Straits Chinese admit to me they own them. What about you, just-arrived 7 point karma naysayer?
  - skinnylatte 12y ago
    I joined because I'm frankly a little amused by some of these comments. More totalitarian: how do you quantify that? I was born and brought up in Singapore and do business in all those countries (tech startup). That sentiment is alien (and not just because I'm Singaporean), it's because Malaysia for example is more totalitarian and is also on the way to becoming a failed state economically and socially. You seem to be reasonably well-versed in the cultural aspects of those countries, but how much of the political institutions do you know — to back up such a claim, anyway? Have you seen Thailand and the junta lately?
    - jpatokal 12y ago
      Dictionary definition: "Totalitarianism is a political system in which the state holds total authority over the society and seeks to control all aspects of public and private life wherever possible." Singapore is pretty much the poster boy for this. Malaysia certainly has aspirations to be as totalitarian as Singapore; however, the government is too incompetent and consumed with in-fighting to actually accomplish it. Thailand is just a garden-variety military dictatorship, the junta hold the levers of power but doesn't really appear to know what to do with them.
    - contingencies 12y ago
      What a surprise that you are Singaporean, lah.
      - sleepyhead 12y ago
        Stand back people - expert coming through - this guy knows the local lingo.
      - skinnylatte 12y ago
        What a surprise that you're an American who believes that your visits to such locations give you the divine right to tell us off (looking at your ignorant comments in the other threads). And that you would use 'lah' inappropriately.
nailer 12y ago
Singapore is authoritarian and corrupt but look at what happened to Anwar Ibrahim in Malaysia.
- contingencies 12y ago
  Very true. For .sg's tactics, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2oL81Tum3I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2oL81Tum3I and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8rPofi-AUw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8rPofi-AUw
- skinnylatte 12y ago
  "Corrupt". Care to substantiate that? Singaporean in opposition politics here — desperately wanting to know.