4 ms·

This happens everywhere (the article specifically refers to a game developed by Ubi Soft Montreal)

by Jare 12y ago

munchhausen 12y ago
Well, I don't know what GP meant by "America", but I can imagine Montreal fitting under that umbrella, nay? FWIW, IME the work ethic in Canada is very, very similar to what it is in the US. There's certainly an accent on the notion of "going the extra mile" by sacrificing a weekend here and there for the sake of a project that's in danger of not meeting an arbitrary, crazy deadline. It seems amazing and a little sad how so many smart people can collectively be so deluded and piss away their health and, ultimately, years of life down the drain in order to make the boss happy/earn that promotion, etc.. There's nothing like being on a conference call with a bunch of smart folks, some of whom are having trouble keeping a short meeting agenda in their heads for 30 minutes due to being profoundly burned out.
- Jare 12y ago
  My impression is that Canada does not have such a culture of overwork and that it is not dominated by Puritan ethics. Tech, however, and games in particular, do have that kind of overwork culture; but they have it everywhere in the world. Reasons include high potential reward, constant change, unpredictability of results, and relatively young workforce. Nothing to do with unions, Puritanism or the like, really. And that culture is indeed destructive for many people, but we only get to hear from the survivors (among which I count myself)
- indians_pro 12y ago
  The last line sounds painfully familiar.
rtpg 12y ago
Really? There are not many developed countries where working 2 full-time jobs is considered 'acceptable' under any standard.
- Jare 12y ago
  Within the same company, for the same project, working two full-time roles, doing 80+ hour weeks for months on end? I can't think of a games company where that hasn't happened. :)
  - tripzilch 12y ago
    There are also many developed countries where these types of Gamedev Companies simply cannot and do not exist. The stories I've heard about (say) EA, that would never be possible in the Netherlands (probably even illegal, but culturally nobody would be willing to work under such conditions, either). Not saying there aren't places here where you can software develop yourself to burnout death, but that really becomes a personal choice at that point. 80+ hour weeks are for the crazy ones. Sometimes it's the beautiful passionate crazies, and something amazing happens. I don't want to play down the results[0], but it's a gamble you play with your own health, life and well-being, it's a choice and one's own responsibility. You can't stop them, but you can make sure they may not hurt themselves too much. [0] Actually, most examples I know of this are from areas completely outside software/computers, superheroes giving themselves for social/societal causes--but I wouldn't exclude "our" line of work per se.
    - Jare 12y ago
      Never? Try asking people who worked at Guerrilla Games for example [1]. Not the craziest crunch place ever, but far from flawless. "Ultimately, we work crazy hours and weekends just to ensure we make something many people get to enjoy, so thanks for taking the time to express concern." [1] http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/06/04/guerrilla-games-teases-new-ps4-remasters-announcements-talks-new-ip-praises-sonys-first-party-studios/ http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/06/04/guerrilla-games-tease...

This happens everywhere (the article specifically refers to a game developed by Ubi Soft Montreal)

by Jare 12y ago

This happens everywhere (the article specifically refers to a game developed by Ubi Soft Montreal)

Well, I don't know what GP meant by "America", but I can imagine Montreal fitting under that umbrella, nay? FWIW, IME the work ethic in Canada is very, very similar to what it is in the US. There's certainly an accent on the notion of "going the extra mile" by sacrificing a weekend here and there for the sake of a project that's in danger of not meeting an arbitrary, crazy deadline. It seems amazing and a little sad how so many smart people can collectively be so deluded and piss away their health and, ultimately, years of life down the drain in order to make the boss happy/earn that promotion, etc.. There's nothing like being on a conference call with a bunch of smart folks, some of whom are having trouble keeping a short meeting agenda in their heads for 30 minutes due to being profoundly burned out.

Jare 12y ago
My impression is that Canada does not have such a culture of overwork and that it is not dominated by Puritan ethics. Tech, however, and games in particular, do have that kind of overwork culture; but they have it everywhere in the world. Reasons include high potential reward, constant change, unpredictability of results, and relatively young workforce. Nothing to do with unions, Puritanism or the like, really. And that culture is indeed destructive for many people, but we only get to hear from the survivors (among which I count myself)
indians_pro 12y ago
The last line sounds painfully familiar.

rtpg 12y ago

Really? There are not many developed countries where working 2 full-time jobs is considered 'acceptable' under any standard.

Jare 12y ago
Within the same company, for the same project, working two full-time roles, doing 80+ hour weeks for months on end? I can't think of a games company where that hasn't happened. :)
- tripzilch 12y ago
  There are also many developed countries where these types of Gamedev Companies simply cannot and do not exist. The stories I've heard about (say) EA, that would never be possible in the Netherlands (probably even illegal, but culturally nobody would be willing to work under such conditions, either). Not saying there aren't places here where you can software develop yourself to burnout death, but that really becomes a personal choice at that point. 80+ hour weeks are for the crazy ones. Sometimes it's the beautiful passionate crazies, and something amazing happens. I don't want to play down the results[0], but it's a gamble you play with your own health, life and well-being, it's a choice and one's own responsibility. You can't stop them, but you can make sure they may not hurt themselves too much. [0] Actually, most examples I know of this are from areas completely outside software/computers, superheroes giving themselves for social/societal causes--but I wouldn't exclude "our" line of work per se.
  - Jare 12y ago
    Never? Try asking people who worked at Guerrilla Games for example [1]. Not the craziest crunch place ever, but far from flawless. "Ultimately, we work crazy hours and weekends just to ensure we make something many people get to enjoy, so thanks for taking the time to express concern." [1] http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/06/04/guerrilla-games-teases-new-ps4-remasters-announcements-talks-new-ip-praises-sonys-first-party-studios/ http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/06/04/guerrilla-games-tease...