4 ms·

I'm very strongly pro-union, but this is an indisputable fact. If labor is to make a comeback in the 21st century, this is an important lesson that needs to be

I'm very strongly pro-union, but this is an indisputable fact. If labor is to make a comeback in the 21st century, this is an important lesson that needs to be learned.

bduerst 12y ago
Interesting. How would you set up a union system that is self improving? Normally organizations need to compete to survive, with the more ineffectual falling off. You can't necessarily have unions compete for members, because the power of the union is in how many members it has and fractioning them would diminish their authority.
- heydenberk 12y ago
  In general, self-improving institutions operate by setting goals, evaluating those goals with metrics and iterating on the underlying model so as to improve those metrics. I know that's a simplistic answer, but I lack the specific understanding of how unions currently work to provide better insight.
- minthd 12y ago
  There are unions in the nordic countries. They generally work quite well and don't hurt those countries competitiveness - those nations are quite competitive. I believe Germany is also highly unionized. So maybe we should learn from them ? And BTW in all those countries one thing about those unions is that they are highly responsible - they understand the market realities and understand that people need to justify salries or else there would be layoffs.
  - bnolsen 12y ago
    no. hard working europeans leave europe to escape the system where they have little hope of bettering themselves in the european system. lots of them showed up in china working as part of outsource or manufacturing firms. talked to several myself.
  - pgeorgi 12y ago
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-19/volkswagen-s-sort-of-union-in-tennessee http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-19/volkswagen... describes the tension of having a company with German-style union-values operate in the US.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
ealexhudson 12y ago
I don't think it's the case that people will stay in the same employ for many years like they used to; unionised or not. People expect to change jobs much more often.

I'm very strongly pro-union, but this is an indisputable fact. If labor is to make a comeback in the 21st century, this is an important lesson that needs to be learned.

bduerst 12y ago

Interesting. How would you set up a union system that is self improving? Normally organizations need to compete to survive, with the more ineffectual falling off. You can't necessarily have unions compete for members, because the power of the union is in how many members it has and fractioning them would diminish their authority.

heydenberk 12y ago
In general, self-improving institutions operate by setting goals, evaluating those goals with metrics and iterating on the underlying model so as to improve those metrics. I know that's a simplistic answer, but I lack the specific understanding of how unions currently work to provide better insight.
minthd 12y ago
There are unions in the nordic countries. They generally work quite well and don't hurt those countries competitiveness - those nations are quite competitive. I believe Germany is also highly unionized. So maybe we should learn from them ? And BTW in all those countries one thing about those unions is that they are highly responsible - they understand the market realities and understand that people need to justify salries or else there would be layoffs.
- bnolsen 12y ago
  no. hard working europeans leave europe to escape the system where they have little hope of bettering themselves in the european system. lots of them showed up in china working as part of outsource or manufacturing firms. talked to several myself.
- pgeorgi 12y ago
  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-19/volkswagen-s-sort-of-union-in-tennessee http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-19/volkswagen... describes the tension of having a company with German-style union-values operate in the US.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

ealexhudson 12y ago

I don't think it's the case that people will stay in the same employ for many years like they used to; unionised or not. People expect to change jobs much more often.