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It may go Pao's way after what the Judge (Kahn) did and said today: "Kahn said there was enough evidence for the jury considering Pao's lawsuit to conclude tha

It may go Pao's way after what the Judge (Kahn) did and said today: "Kahn said there was enough evidence for the jury considering Pao's lawsuit to conclude that Kleiner Perkins acted with malice, oppression or fraud, which in California is the legal threshold for awarding damages that are designed to punish and deter particularly bad behavior." "Per this standard, there is sufficient evidence from which a reasonable juror could conclude that Kleiner Perkins engaged in intentional gender discrimination by failing to promote Ms. Pao and terminating her employment,'' the judge said in the one-paragraph decision." =================================================== It's a shame, because the jury will take this as 'direction' from the judge. Pao should lose here. 1) She had a consensual relationship with another employee, Ajit Nazre, at the firm. 2) She broke it off then complained to HR that he was still bugging her. 3) John Doerr himself (the top guy at KPCB) was made aware of her complaint to the HR department and was going to fire Ajit Nazre. 4) Pao then pleaded with John Doerr and the other senior partners not to fire Ajit Nazre. Those 'pleading' emails she sent were read out loud to the jury. 5) And now she complains the firm did nothing to 'save her' from Ajit Nazre ?! Then she thought "let me add some 'gender discrimination' to my lawsuit here." And yet three other female employees of the firm testified there was no discrimination against women. One of the women spent 15 years at the firm too. And she no longer works there, so has no reason to hold back anything. Unfortunately, with the judge sending a strong signal to the jury today, Pao is probably going to win here.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- youngButEager 12y ago
  There is such a thing as being victimized by someone claiming to be a victim. If it's ever happened to your firm -- or to a team within your firm -- your understanding of the scope of the full spectrum of human behavior will change, permanently. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got, growing up, was this: "Even if you have not (yet) experienced, in your youth, a very broad range of human behavior, you can compensate by imagining the range of behavior that an officer of the law with 20 years on the force has probably seen." The facts are pretty clear, it comes off as a 'frivolous' lawsuit in my opinion. 1) There has been no female at the firm -- or any female, or Pao's attorney would've had them in court -- claim that KPCB has gender discrimination problems. And there have been several women in court testifying about this issue. No one backs her up. 2) She claims that KPCB didn't do anything to get Ajit Nazre to stop pestering her. But in fact, the leader of the firm was going to fire Nazre. And Pao intervened, begging them not to fire Nazre. It seems like a frivolous case to me. Don't know how else you'd describe it.
  - NotableAlamode 12y ago
    Of course it's a frivolous case, but the US legal system is incredibly misandric/anti-male, as every man who's every been in a divorce case in the US can testify. It's Pao's rational self-interest to exploit the misandry of the US legal system.
    - vasilipupkin 12y ago
      I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions. An all male partner party for Al Gore is pretty strong evidence of discrimination, in my opinion.
      - NotableAlamode 12y ago
        How? Kleiner partners and Kleiner ladies probably diverge in their ideas of what's fun. I'm often not invited to my colleagues parties, and I don't invite them -- we are very different.
        vasilipupkin 12y ago
        you seriously asking me this? the issue at stake is not being invited solely on the basis of one's sex. Discrimination based on sex is prohibited by law
  - kzhahou 12y ago
    That's not what "frivolous" means.
    - youngButEager 12y ago
      ?? A 'frivolous' lawsuit is a case with no merit. From Merriam-Webster: Full Definition of FRIVOLOUS a : of little weight or importance b : having no sound basis (as in fact or law) <a frivolous lawsuit> Granted, it's only my opinion the case has no merit, that she's filed a frivolous lawsuit. And even if she loses, her "In for a penny, in for a pound" team of lawyers will probably appeal -- they're probably working pro-bono ("Yay! We're going to get rich suing the almighty KPCB!") and might well think "we got this far, filing the appeal has a chance and it's not that much more work." If she'd had a few female witnesses back up her story that "gender discrimination is rampant at KPCB, and gender discrimination is why I was never promoted." She's got none. ZERO. Her whole case is 'gender discrimination.' Since there are no witnesses to concur, it's looking more and more that the stuff she pulled on Komisar and her list of enemies at the firm really do add up to "crummy performer" as the reason she didn't get a promo. Are you aware that she told her bosses "give me ten million dollars and I'll disappear" ? That comes across as borderline extortion. http://www.businessinsider.com/ellen-pao-asked-for-10-million-2015-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/ellen-pao-asked-for-10-millio...
argonaut 12y ago
1) IANAL, but it's mentioned in The Verge that it was actually considered unusual for the judge to even consider KPCB's request to dismiss the punitive damages claim 2) If, as you claim, the jury will be unduly influenced by the judge's ruling, KPCB's lawyers have only themselves to blame. They filed that motion. Their lawyers are extremely experienced and should have known what the result would be if the judge made a ruling denying their request. This leads me to believe that in practice these rulings do not unduly influence juries; especially because the judge specifically noted in his ruling that: "Interpreting the evidence most favorably to Ms. Pao and most strongly against Kleiner Perkins, and resolving all presumptions, inferences, and doubts in favor of Ms. Pao, as I am required to do on a nonsuit motion... there is sufficient evidence..." http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/21/8267273/judge-in-kleiner-perkins-trial-just-ruled-that http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/21/8267273/judge-in-kleiner-p...
colmvp 12y ago
I submitted this story a few days ago which didn't get any upvotes but elaborates on your point http://recode.net/2015/03/20/ellen-pao-and-the-case-of-the-mysterious-missing-admins/ http://recode.net/2015/03/20/ellen-pao-and-the-case-of-the-m... > Ellen Pao said she filed her gender discrimination lawsuit against Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers partly because of three female administrative assistants who had been discriminated against because of their gender — and only with Pao’s lawsuit and a meaningful settlement would the firm take women’s issues seriously. > There is only one problem: No one in the courtroom seems to know where these admins are. No one seems to know the details of their grievances. No one in court, including Pao, even knows all their names. > Pao also said she was told by Kleiner Perkins talent partner Juliet de Baubigny that Nazre was a “sex addict.” To her, that pointed to a larger unspoken history. “I thought she must have additional information and maybe about the administrative assistants,” Pao said. > Asked on the stand today whether she ever called Nazre a “sex addict,” de Baubigny replied, “No, that is completely ridiculous.”
- facepalm 12y ago
  Would being a sex addict be punishable in court? I mean is it in any way illegal?
  - strathmeyer 12y ago
    You're supposed to feel sorry enough for her to give her millions.
mherkender 12y ago
I guess I just don't understand why any of that couldn't be chalked up to conflicted feelings. Couldn't all the things you're saying be true, and yet Kliener Perkins be guilty of discrimination? Why does her imperfect behavior matter if she's not on trial?
kzhahou 12y ago
This article contains better quotes from the ruling: http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/21/8267273/judge-in-kleiner-perkins-trial-just-ruled-that http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/21/8267273/judge-in-kleiner-p... "Defendant Kleiner Perkins’ motion for nonsuit on plaintiff Ms. Pao’s request for punitive damages is denied. Interpreting the evidence most favorably to Ms. Pao and most strongly against Kleiner Perkins, and resolving all presumptions, inferences, and doubts in favor of Ms. Pao, as I am required to do on a nonsuit motion (Wegner, Fairbank, and Epstein, California Practice Guide: Cilvil Trials and Evidence (The Rutter Group 2014) 12:203), there is sufficient evidence from which a reasonable juror could find, as to Ms. Pao’s claims for gender discrimination and retaliation, that Kleiner Perkins acted with malice, fraud or oppression. Per this standard, there is sufficient evidence from which a reasonable juror could conclude that Kleiner Perkins engaged in intentional gender discrimination by failing to promote Ms. Pao and terminating her employment and that Kleiner Perkins attempted to hide its illegal conduct by offering knowingly false and pre textual explanations for its decisions not to promote Ms. Pao and to terminate her employment. […] Similarly, per the nonsuit standard, there is sufficient evidence from which a reasonable juror could conclude that Kleiner Perkins retaliated against Ms. Pao for making a protected complaint in December 2011 and January 2012 and for filing this lawsuit by failing to promote her and terminating her employment and that Kleiner Perkins attempted to hide its illegal conduct by offering knowingly false and pre textual explanations for its decisions not to promote Ms. Pao and to terminate her employment." --- The judge is essentially saying that IF one interprets all the evidence and testimony, strongly in favor of Pao and against KP, then there would be malice/fraud/oppression. The judge explicitly states that he is following a mandatory legal standard. This is not his subjective interpretation. The judge is not saying anything about the actual strength of Pao's case.
chernevik 12y ago
IANAL but aren't rulings like this made out of hearing of the jury? And, while they may be hard to avoid, aren't juries instructed to avoid news accounts of the case they are hearing?
zamalek 12y ago
> Pao should lose here. The thing I find scary is: how many hard-won discrimination battles has she undone by crying wolf? It doesn't matter what the court decides, your logical deduction is probably the same that many people will make. Talking up against gender discrimination is hard; even harder when nobody is taking you seriously because somebody else cried wolf.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

youngButEager 12y ago
There is such a thing as being victimized by someone claiming to be a victim. If it's ever happened to your firm -- or to a team within your firm -- your understanding of the scope of the full spectrum of human behavior will change, permanently. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got, growing up, was this: "Even if you have not (yet) experienced, in your youth, a very broad range of human behavior, you can compensate by imagining the range of behavior that an officer of the law with 20 years on the force has probably seen." The facts are pretty clear, it comes off as a 'frivolous' lawsuit in my opinion. 1) There has been no female at the firm -- or any female, or Pao's attorney would've had them in court -- claim that KPCB has gender discrimination problems. And there have been several women in court testifying about this issue. No one backs her up. 2) She claims that KPCB didn't do anything to get Ajit Nazre to stop pestering her. But in fact, the leader of the firm was going to fire Nazre. And Pao intervened, begging them not to fire Nazre. It seems like a frivolous case to me. Don't know how else you'd describe it.
- NotableAlamode 12y ago
  Of course it's a frivolous case, but the US legal system is incredibly misandric/anti-male, as every man who's every been in a divorce case in the US can testify. It's Pao's rational self-interest to exploit the misandry of the US legal system.
  - vasilipupkin 12y ago
    I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions. An all male partner party for Al Gore is pretty strong evidence of discrimination, in my opinion.
    - NotableAlamode 12y ago
      How? Kleiner partners and Kleiner ladies probably diverge in their ideas of what's fun. I'm often not invited to my colleagues parties, and I don't invite them -- we are very different.
      - vasilipupkin 12y ago
        you seriously asking me this? the issue at stake is not being invited solely on the basis of one's sex. Discrimination based on sex is prohibited by law
- kzhahou 12y ago
  That's not what "frivolous" means.
  - youngButEager 12y ago
    ?? A 'frivolous' lawsuit is a case with no merit. From Merriam-Webster: Full Definition of FRIVOLOUS a : of little weight or importance b : having no sound basis (as in fact or law) <a frivolous lawsuit> Granted, it's only my opinion the case has no merit, that she's filed a frivolous lawsuit. And even if she loses, her "In for a penny, in for a pound" team of lawyers will probably appeal -- they're probably working pro-bono ("Yay! We're going to get rich suing the almighty KPCB!") and might well think "we got this far, filing the appeal has a chance and it's not that much more work." If she'd had a few female witnesses back up her story that "gender discrimination is rampant at KPCB, and gender discrimination is why I was never promoted." She's got none. ZERO. Her whole case is 'gender discrimination.' Since there are no witnesses to concur, it's looking more and more that the stuff she pulled on Komisar and her list of enemies at the firm really do add up to "crummy performer" as the reason she didn't get a promo. Are you aware that she told her bosses "give me ten million dollars and I'll disappear" ? That comes across as borderline extortion. http://www.businessinsider.com/ellen-pao-asked-for-10-million-2015-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/ellen-pao-asked-for-10-millio...

argonaut 12y ago

1) IANAL, but it's mentioned in The Verge that it was actually considered unusual for the judge to even consider KPCB's request to dismiss the punitive damages claim 2) If, as you claim, the jury will be unduly influenced by the judge's ruling, KPCB's lawyers have only themselves to blame. They filed that motion. Their lawyers are extremely experienced and should have known what the result would be if the judge made a ruling denying their request. This leads me to believe that in practice these rulings do not unduly influence juries; especially because the judge specifically noted in his ruling that: "Interpreting the evidence most favorably to Ms. Pao and most strongly against Kleiner Perkins, and resolving all presumptions, inferences, and doubts in favor of Ms. Pao, as I am required to do on a nonsuit motion... there is sufficient evidence..." http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/21/8267273/judge-in-kleiner-perkins-trial-just-ruled-that http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/21/8267273/judge-in-kleiner-p...

colmvp 12y ago

I submitted this story a few days ago which didn't get any upvotes but elaborates on your point http://recode.net/2015/03/20/ellen-pao-and-the-case-of-the-mysterious-missing-admins/ http://recode.net/2015/03/20/ellen-pao-and-the-case-of-the-m... > Ellen Pao said she filed her gender discrimination lawsuit against Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers partly because of three female administrative assistants who had been discriminated against because of their gender — and only with Pao’s lawsuit and a meaningful settlement would the firm take women’s issues seriously. > There is only one problem: No one in the courtroom seems to know where these admins are. No one seems to know the details of their grievances. No one in court, including Pao, even knows all their names. > Pao also said she was told by Kleiner Perkins talent partner Juliet de Baubigny that Nazre was a “sex addict.” To her, that pointed to a larger unspoken history. “I thought she must have additional information and maybe about the administrative assistants,” Pao said. > Asked on the stand today whether she ever called Nazre a “sex addict,” de Baubigny replied, “No, that is completely ridiculous.”

facepalm 12y ago
Would being a sex addict be punishable in court? I mean is it in any way illegal?
- strathmeyer 12y ago
  You're supposed to feel sorry enough for her to give her millions.

mherkender 12y ago

I guess I just don't understand why any of that couldn't be chalked up to conflicted feelings. Couldn't all the things you're saying be true, and yet Kliener Perkins be guilty of discrimination? Why does her imperfect behavior matter if she's not on trial?

kzhahou 12y ago

This article contains better quotes from the ruling: http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/21/8267273/judge-in-kleiner-perkins-trial-just-ruled-that http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/21/8267273/judge-in-kleiner-p... "Defendant Kleiner Perkins’ motion for nonsuit on plaintiff Ms. Pao’s request for punitive damages is denied. Interpreting the evidence most favorably to Ms. Pao and most strongly against Kleiner Perkins, and resolving all presumptions, inferences, and doubts in favor of Ms. Pao, as I am required to do on a nonsuit motion (Wegner, Fairbank, and Epstein, California Practice Guide: Cilvil Trials and Evidence (The Rutter Group 2014) 12:203), there is sufficient evidence from which a reasonable juror could find, as to Ms. Pao’s claims for gender discrimination and retaliation, that Kleiner Perkins acted with malice, fraud or oppression. Per this standard, there is sufficient evidence from which a reasonable juror could conclude that Kleiner Perkins engaged in intentional gender discrimination by failing to promote Ms. Pao and terminating her employment and that Kleiner Perkins attempted to hide its illegal conduct by offering knowingly false and pre textual explanations for its decisions not to promote Ms. Pao and to terminate her employment. […] Similarly, per the nonsuit standard, there is sufficient evidence from which a reasonable juror could conclude that Kleiner Perkins retaliated against Ms. Pao for making a protected complaint in December 2011 and January 2012 and for filing this lawsuit by failing to promote her and terminating her employment and that Kleiner Perkins attempted to hide its illegal conduct by offering knowingly false and pre textual explanations for its decisions not to promote Ms. Pao and to terminate her employment." --- The judge is essentially saying that IF one interprets all the evidence and testimony, strongly in favor of Pao and against KP, then there would be malice/fraud/oppression. The judge explicitly states that he is following a mandatory legal standard. This is not his subjective interpretation. The judge is not saying anything about the actual strength of Pao's case.

chernevik 12y ago

IANAL but aren't rulings like this made out of hearing of the jury? And, while they may be hard to avoid, aren't juries instructed to avoid news accounts of the case they are hearing?

zamalek 12y ago

> Pao should lose here. The thing I find scary is: how many hard-won discrimination battles has she undone by crying wolf? It doesn't matter what the court decides, your logical deduction is probably the same that many people will make. Talking up against gender discrimination is hard; even harder when nobody is taking you seriously because somebody else cried wolf.