6 ms·

Ask HN: Feeling pressured to accept startup job offer quickly

41 points by yahth 12y ago

Hi, I recently got offered a startup job at a nice little company in SF. Everything seems OK with the company and job. After going back and forth a little on the compensation we came to an agreement. However, they are pressuring me to take the job asap because they have a short list and who ever says 'yes' first gets the job. I've never encountered this situation before. Is this normal? Here's something else that makes me suspicious: I'm a terrible interviewer and not a great programmer and am suspicious that there's a company that will accept me. The interview process was a bit long and through with a phone screen and an office visit and a follow up interview. Maybe this is the interview I finally just nailed after many failed interviews. I can't really tell. I'm a little worried about leaving my current job because now I'm wondering if this is just a tactic or foible on the part of the CEO or is it an actual sign of something is wrong.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
quipp 12y ago
Why are you looking for work? Can't be that great of a place if you're looking, so maybe the risk is worth it considering. Why would you expect them not to pressure you? They probably have some other canadidate who will cost more than you and they don't want to drop the ball with them. Also, while they are pressuring you they are obviously not rushing. You have had three interviews with them. That must take some time, more than a few days I'd imagine (probably a week or two minimum). Shit or get off the pot man :)
grumblestumble 12y ago
I moved to the Bay Area about a year ago and interviewed at more startups than I'd care to count. The time-pressure offer is pretty much SOP in my experience - 48 hours for a response was the usual limit. Personally, I find it tacky and pathetic, and yep, I ended up going with someone who gave me a week to make my decision. It has far less to do with them "wanting to move on to the next thing" than them wanting to prevent you from following through with other interviews you may be in process with.
brandonlipman 12y ago
I have been through a very similar situation. I would be cautious as if they are rushing you they may be trying to hide information from you. One thing I would spend a lot of time looking at is other employees that they have/had. Look at there work history and talk to them if you can. From my experience (lesson learned the hard way), one thing to be 100% confident on is that what you are signing, the employment agreement, is solid. Pay the money for a good lawyer to look it over. Let me know if you need a reference for a lawyer. Also them saying, "who ever says 'yes' first gets the job" would make me very suspicious as they are not valuing your skills.
random567 12y ago
Don't take it (or at least treat it as an enormous red flag). Only companies in a position of weakness do this, which means there is something wrong with them. My first job I gave in to an exploding offer like that and it did not end well (though it taught me a ton because I got to be a rock star) BUT - if you really think that you aren't a great programmer AND this job will give you the opportunity to level up your skills, then it could be worth it. (esp if your current job is not programming-related) Otherwise, leave it in the dust - if you can get a job at 2 places (current job + this one), you can get a job at another place.
- yahth 12y ago
  > BUT - if you really think that you aren't a great programmer AND this job will give you the opportunity to level up your skills, then it could be worth it. (esp if your current job is not programming-related) Yes, this. I'm hoping that maybe I can not feel like such a loser for once if I take this job. I'll get stuff done and at least learn something. My job so far has been not those things.
khuey 12y ago
No reputable employer would offer multiple people a single position simultaneously and give it to the first to say yes. That's a big red flag.
- joncalhoun 12y ago
  I 100% agree with this, but just to play the hopeful optimist: Is it possible there was a misunderstanding and the CEO meant he needs a decision from you so he can move on to their second best option if you say no? I can understand their perspective if this was the case. They likely need to give everyone who applied quick responses, and some of those responses depend on whether you accept the offer. They also need to fill a role and it is generally assumed that someone applying for a position wants it and can decide quickly. You would be equally upset if a company listed a position they might be hiring for, but advertised it as a real opening.
dsl 12y ago
In my experience early stage startups do want people to accept quickly because they are operating on compressed timelines (we have X days to show Y progress before money runs out). That said, if they offered the position to multiple people... huge red flag. You should post the name of the company here so it shows up in Google results for them.
- yahth 12y ago
  Thanks for your feedback. > In my experience early stage startups do want people to accept quickly because they are operating on compressed timelines (we have X days to show Y progress before money runs out). This is what I figured. I am trying to see it from their eyes. > That said, if they offered the position to multiple people... huge red flag. You should post the name of the company here so it shows up in Google results for them. I'm not prepared to do that to them yet because I don't think there's malice on their part.
striking 12y ago
Don't give in to pressure. Double-check the facts, because they might be pressuring you so that you miss something. Make sure that they value you. If they're legitimately what you're looking for, though, it may just be inexperience on their CEO's part. The pressure may just be incidental. Having answered none of your concerns, I wish you the best of luck.
forkandwait 12y ago
Lame, red flag, tell them to stuff it.
chaosfactor 12y ago
This is called an exploding offer. It's not really real.
ChuckMcM 12y ago
By law, when you received your written offer letter it included an expiration date. If you accept before then, they have to employ you, if you don't accept by then, they are not obligated to give you a job even if you say yes. Start ups are moving quickly and trying to get to the next milestone. That often means they really want people on or off, but not off "thinking about it." That said, it sounds like you already made up your mind right? You are having second thoughts so own that and say "Thanks, but no thanks." and keep looking and/or doing what ever it is you are doing.
- yahth 12y ago
  > Start ups are moving quickly and trying to get to the next milestone. I honestly think that's what it is; i don't ascribe malice towards my potential employer. > That said, it sounds like you already made up your mind right? You are having second thoughts so own that and say "Thanks, but no thanks." and keep looking and/or doing what ever it is you are doing. No, you're reading too much into it. :-) Even if they are bears to work for, there's lot of work to do that I'd like to do. Then, maybe I won't have a hard time getting a job next time. Thanks for your input. It is not often I hear from management types, especially at the VP level. Thanks!
- jordanb 12y ago
  > If you accept before then, they have to employ you I've never seen a job offer that doesn't explicitly disclaim any implication that it's a binding agreement to employ you. Maybe in California it's different but in Illinois it's unheard of that a company would legally obligate themselves to employ an engineer with their offer letter.
  - ams6110 12y ago
    Every offer letter I've ever received certainly had escape clauses. If it were binding it would be called a "contract" not an "offer." That said, many startups are clueless about HR policies and employment law. My bet is that they just really don't know what they are doing.
- ctvo 12y ago
svec 12y ago
Do you have a written & signed offer letter? Or is it all verbal/over-the-phone? If it's not in writing & signed, then it's not real. And as many others are saying, it's a HUGE red flag that the company said they offered the job to more than just you - it's a deal breaker, in my opinion. Knowing only what you've written here, I would tell the company "thanks but no thanks" and walk away.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
Kalium 12y ago
I would suggest pushing back against the pressure. Tell them that you don't appreciate it and you'll decide in your own time after you get the offer in writing.
istvan__ 12y ago
Usually when people tell me this, I ask them to go with the other option (candidate in this case). Quite frankly, in SF there is a huge shortage of tech staff, so either they are lying to your face or they have something that attracts candidates to them that I am not aware of. Either case, I don't think it is ethical to do this.
nartz 12y ago
Have you done your due diligence - is it a good place to work? Are there smart people there? Are you going into a job you actually want to? If so, go for it. You'll never know until you do. If you have reservations, or need more time, be up front and tell them that (and see what they say). The hiring process is like sales, there is a need to 'close' people so you create artificial pressure so you can get people to make a decision (and take them off the market).
nartz 12y ago
Have you done your due diligence - is it a good place to work? Are there smart people there? Are you going into a job you actually want to? If so, go for it. You'll never know until you do. If you have reservations, or need more time, be up front and tell them that (and see what they say). The hiring process is like sales, there is a need to 'close' people so you create artificial pressure so you can get people to make a decision (and take them off the market).
jakejake 12y ago
I've interviewed before where, once the offer was made, they did want me to decide rather quickly. This was a startup that was reputable, popular and growing extremely quickly. However they didn't make me feel as if I was racing against other candidates for the spot - they just wanted to get to work. I would just make sure to do your research and see if you can find anything about this company or the main people involved and decide if you trust them. By the way - most startups will fail. That is the reality. If you are going to work at a startup you need to be willing to make risky career moves.
BurningFrog 12y ago
I understand wanting a quick answers so they can offer the job to candidate B or C before they accept other offers. But offering it to several people at once is not only really weird. It also a really poor algorithm. These people are bad engineers, and you do not want to work with them! Your interviewing and skills insecurities are a whole separate topic. When you go to a startup, you need to be ready for the job to end any day. If your current job is more secure, think about if you want to lose that.
- DevX101 12y ago
  > These people are bad engineers By OP's own admission, he's a bad engineer too. He should take it if the money is acceptable and he likes the company.
  - zem 12y ago
    no, if you're a bad engineer you really want to work with people who are "doing it right", so that you can learn from them.
gojomo 12y ago
On the one hand: If you in fact "came to an agreement" on compensation, why are you still not on-board? Was your negotiating position actually, "if you offer me $X then I'll stop asking for more but still need some number of days to think"? Are you waiting to hear from other potential employers? Are there any red flags other than their impatience? On the other hand: If they've truly given multiple people offers simultaneously but said they'll only hire the one who accepts first, that's a bit of a red flag. (Are you sure they don't just need your definitive no to issue an offer to their next-choice?) Often exploding offers are just bluster: if you made sense as a hire on this Monday, you'll usually make sense as a hire on the next Monday as well. Back to the first hand: You haven't quantified at all the deadlines they've suggested or that you think would be reasonable. Maybe they're sensing a red-flag from you: "We came up to a compensation number they agreed to, but they still haven't said they'll join or even given us a date-certain when they'll answer. We'd better force the issue. We've been burned before waiting for Hamlets to make up their mind!" Everyone wants to move fast, and be affirmatively wanted by their co-party. They don't just want to be a stalking-horse for a counter-offer from your current-employer, or your fall-back if another slower process falls through. How much time would you want to take to decide, and what new information would you have after that much time goes by? They may legitimately think that if you're not enthusiastic now, just after the interviews and negotiations, then N more days of holding a spot for you isn't going to help.
- yahth 12y ago
  > Maybe they're sensing a red-flag from you: "We came up to a compensation number they agreed to, but they still haven't said they'll join or even given us a date-certain when they'll answer. We'd better force the issue. We've been burned before waiting for Hamlets to make up their mind!" This is completely fair and I think they want to move fast being a small company and all. There's lot of interesting work to do and I'd like to help them do it. They seem like good people anyways. I'm mostly waiting to hear back from other interviews I've had. Thanks for your input.
crdoconnor 12y ago
It's a sales tactic. It usually means that they are lowballing you.
- huhtenberg 12y ago
  It doesn't "usually" mean that. They may simply need to get someone really quickly.
  - crdoconnor 12y ago
    Unlikely. Training ramp up until a developer becomes fully productive usually takes months. Hiring quickly is a false economy if I ever saw one. The times when it's been used on me, the company in question has never been in a hurry to hire.
IgorPartola 12y ago
Chances are there is nothing nefarious going on here, just incompetence. This company probably thinks they have stumbled onto the magic hiring formula. They are not the first or last to reinvent terrible hiring or management practices. Personally, I would refuse such an offer, and tell them why. Maybe they will learn. As for being a bad interviewee and developer, shoot me an email. I am not in SF, but I am a strong interviewer/interviewee and if you want I can do a mock/practice interview with you. As for being a bad developer, the secret truth is that most of us are terrible until we learn enough to be less terrible. We usually learn on the job, not before it. There are brilliant programmers out there, but you don't need to be brilliant to contribute value to an organization.
- yahth 12y ago
  > Chances are there is nothing nefarious going on here... I agree, and I should have probably mentioned that in my initial comment. I just don't know how common this sort of thing is. They seem like good people, and there's a lot of work to do. maybe after doing some work like that I won't be so terrible. :) Thanks!
- nnd 12y ago
  A bit offtopic, but... Can you give us any advice on how to solve interview challenges faster and unstick under the pressure?
  - imsofuture 12y ago
    Practice!
    - nnd 12y ago
      Sure there is not substitute for it, but I was looking for a more specific advice on how to practice.
  - zo1 12y ago
    Easy: Don't agree with it (unless you're really desperate for the job). The amount of times when "quick thinking" and "fast-solution, now, give it, before this clock ticks!!" actually happens in day-to-day situations is ridiculously tiny. So testing for it in an interview is pointless, and I'd tell them just that.
MichaelCrawford 12y ago
If there is anything I regret about my career, it is that many times I have agreed to things without really taking time to think them through. It would be reasonable for them to provide a specific deadline, so that they could offer the job to someone else if you were to totally blow them off by not replying. It's better to be broke and hungry than to take a job that you later regret.
hkmurakami 12y ago
1-2 weeks is reasonable. I've had an exploding offer of 2 days given to me before. That was negotiable if they wanted you and you just said "thx but I need longer". YMMV.
jacquesm 12y ago
Never ever agree to anything at all under pressure. If that's what it takes for the offering party they are either incompetent or malicious there is no pay-off in finding out which. That goes for hiring offers but also for any other kind of offer. The one exception I can think of for exploding offers is if a key employee has left and the company will lose direction if the position isn't filled immediately. This normally is not the case in start-ups.
mind_heist 12y ago
Well - While a bunch of folks here are telling this could be a red flag (and rethink / walk away ), I just want to present the other side of the story. (1) Managers/Companies also have deadlines when it comes to hiring a candidate. And if there is an impending "Hiring Freeze" that is about to be enforced , the desperation to hire someone goes up. This happens in large companies ( I m not sure about startups though); In these cases - the hiring Managers feel its OK for a candidate fall short of a bunch of expectations . They might as well have a resource that can get some work done , instead of not hiring any one ( and be stuck with one less resource for the next few months) . Most of the hiring freezes last one quarter. Sometimes , it might last two quarters - and it mounts a lot of pressure on the existing members of the team. (2) Hiring managers (sometimes) look for potential than what you are currently capable of. You might have not the exact skills they are looking for - but you might have shown enough enthusiasm about the role / and might have strong indicators that you could get the job done for them. Its fairly possible either one of these or both could be happening in your case.
tw8845 12y ago
Go with your gut. If it doesn't feel right, don't do it. This advice has never served me wrong, although I have been burned plenty of times before by attempts to rationalize around red flags.
err4nt 12y ago
My take on the situation is that if they are hiring the first (pre-approved) person to say 'Yes!' for a position, then they care more about the position than the person. My gut says that you wouldn't have sufficient job security, because to them, even in the hiring process you're expendable and intercheangeable. You're lucky if they used your name instead of 'Dear Applicant' so they could just blast out the same message to all candidates. Work for people who value your person, and say: "I'm willing to pay x dollars to have YOU on the team!" If it was me and this situation went down, it would be hard, but I would reply with this: "I would love to work with you, but at this point it doesn't seem clear that you want to work with me. Let me know when you are certain that I am the person you want on the team, and we can talk about my availability at that time."
saluki 12y ago
It is a red flag, but they may be in a hurry to get someone on board or maybe misspoke about first to say yes is in. If you think you can learn, level up your skills there and the compensation is satisfactory I would lean toward accepting. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Don't let an opportunity slip by. You can always give it a go, see how you like it, learn and add to your resume. Then if it's not working out you can look for a new position.
fsk 12y ago
I've had job offers revoked, but that happened when I was unemployed at the time. If they're disorganized or unethical, that increases the chance they will fail in 3-12 months. It also increases the chance that you might feel the need to leave again after working there.
gorbachev 12y ago
Go with your gut feeling. Something is making you unsteady about the company. Either clarify it with the company or decline the offer. Either way don't accept an offer you have reservations.
6a68 12y ago
Exploding offers are a standard move in the VC startup playbook. You're probably going to get a standard "just an engineer" startup experience. Is this what you want? Here, read this and think it over: https://al3x.net/2013/05/23/letter-to-a-young-programmer.html https://al3x.net/2013/05/23/letter-to-a-young-programmer.htm...

41 points by yahth 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

quipp 12y ago

Why are you looking for work? Can't be that great of a place if you're looking, so maybe the risk is worth it considering. Why would you expect them not to pressure you? They probably have some other canadidate who will cost more than you and they don't want to drop the ball with them. Also, while they are pressuring you they are obviously not rushing. You have had three interviews with them. That must take some time, more than a few days I'd imagine (probably a week or two minimum). Shit or get off the pot man :)

grumblestumble 12y ago

I moved to the Bay Area about a year ago and interviewed at more startups than I'd care to count. The time-pressure offer is pretty much SOP in my experience - 48 hours for a response was the usual limit. Personally, I find it tacky and pathetic, and yep, I ended up going with someone who gave me a week to make my decision. It has far less to do with them "wanting to move on to the next thing" than them wanting to prevent you from following through with other interviews you may be in process with.

brandonlipman 12y ago

I have been through a very similar situation. I would be cautious as if they are rushing you they may be trying to hide information from you. One thing I would spend a lot of time looking at is other employees that they have/had. Look at there work history and talk to them if you can. From my experience (lesson learned the hard way), one thing to be 100% confident on is that what you are signing, the employment agreement, is solid. Pay the money for a good lawyer to look it over. Let me know if you need a reference for a lawyer. Also them saying, "who ever says 'yes' first gets the job" would make me very suspicious as they are not valuing your skills.

random567 12y ago

Don't take it (or at least treat it as an enormous red flag). Only companies in a position of weakness do this, which means there is something wrong with them. My first job I gave in to an exploding offer like that and it did not end well (though it taught me a ton because I got to be a rock star) BUT - if you really think that you aren't a great programmer AND this job will give you the opportunity to level up your skills, then it could be worth it. (esp if your current job is not programming-related) Otherwise, leave it in the dust - if you can get a job at 2 places (current job + this one), you can get a job at another place.

yahth 12y ago
> BUT - if you really think that you aren't a great programmer AND this job will give you the opportunity to level up your skills, then it could be worth it. (esp if your current job is not programming-related) Yes, this. I'm hoping that maybe I can not feel like such a loser for once if I take this job. I'll get stuff done and at least learn something. My job so far has been not those things.

khuey 12y ago

No reputable employer would offer multiple people a single position simultaneously and give it to the first to say yes. That's a big red flag.

joncalhoun 12y ago
I 100% agree with this, but just to play the hopeful optimist: Is it possible there was a misunderstanding and the CEO meant he needs a decision from you so he can move on to their second best option if you say no? I can understand their perspective if this was the case. They likely need to give everyone who applied quick responses, and some of those responses depend on whether you accept the offer. They also need to fill a role and it is generally assumed that someone applying for a position wants it and can decide quickly. You would be equally upset if a company listed a position they might be hiring for, but advertised it as a real opening.

dsl 12y ago

In my experience early stage startups do want people to accept quickly because they are operating on compressed timelines (we have X days to show Y progress before money runs out). That said, if they offered the position to multiple people... huge red flag. You should post the name of the company here so it shows up in Google results for them.

yahth 12y ago
Thanks for your feedback. > In my experience early stage startups do want people to accept quickly because they are operating on compressed timelines (we have X days to show Y progress before money runs out). This is what I figured. I am trying to see it from their eyes. > That said, if they offered the position to multiple people... huge red flag. You should post the name of the company here so it shows up in Google results for them. I'm not prepared to do that to them yet because I don't think there's malice on their part.

striking 12y ago

Don't give in to pressure. Double-check the facts, because they might be pressuring you so that you miss something. Make sure that they value you. If they're legitimately what you're looking for, though, it may just be inexperience on their CEO's part. The pressure may just be incidental. Having answered none of your concerns, I wish you the best of luck.

forkandwait 12y ago

Lame, red flag, tell them to stuff it.

chaosfactor 12y ago

This is called an exploding offer. It's not really real.

ChuckMcM 12y ago

By law, when you received your written offer letter it included an expiration date. If you accept before then, they have to employ you, if you don't accept by then, they are not obligated to give you a job even if you say yes. Start ups are moving quickly and trying to get to the next milestone. That often means they really want people on or off, but not off "thinking about it." That said, it sounds like you already made up your mind right? You are having second thoughts so own that and say "Thanks, but no thanks." and keep looking and/or doing what ever it is you are doing.

yahth 12y ago
> Start ups are moving quickly and trying to get to the next milestone. I honestly think that's what it is; i don't ascribe malice towards my potential employer. > That said, it sounds like you already made up your mind right? You are having second thoughts so own that and say "Thanks, but no thanks." and keep looking and/or doing what ever it is you are doing. No, you're reading too much into it. :-) Even if they are bears to work for, there's lot of work to do that I'd like to do. Then, maybe I won't have a hard time getting a job next time. Thanks for your input. It is not often I hear from management types, especially at the VP level. Thanks!
jordanb 12y ago
> If you accept before then, they have to employ you I've never seen a job offer that doesn't explicitly disclaim any implication that it's a binding agreement to employ you. Maybe in California it's different but in Illinois it's unheard of that a company would legally obligate themselves to employ an engineer with their offer letter.
- ams6110 12y ago
  Every offer letter I've ever received certainly had escape clauses. If it were binding it would be called a "contract" not an "offer." That said, many startups are clueless about HR policies and employment law. My bet is that they just really don't know what they are doing.
ctvo 12y ago

svec 12y ago

Do you have a written & signed offer letter? Or is it all verbal/over-the-phone? If it's not in writing & signed, then it's not real. And as many others are saying, it's a HUGE red flag that the company said they offered the job to more than just you - it's a deal breaker, in my opinion. Knowing only what you've written here, I would tell the company "thanks but no thanks" and walk away.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

Kalium 12y ago

I would suggest pushing back against the pressure. Tell them that you don't appreciate it and you'll decide in your own time after you get the offer in writing.

istvan__ 12y ago

Usually when people tell me this, I ask them to go with the other option (candidate in this case). Quite frankly, in SF there is a huge shortage of tech staff, so either they are lying to your face or they have something that attracts candidates to them that I am not aware of. Either case, I don't think it is ethical to do this.

nartz 12y ago

Have you done your due diligence - is it a good place to work? Are there smart people there? Are you going into a job you actually want to? If so, go for it. You'll never know until you do. If you have reservations, or need more time, be up front and tell them that (and see what they say). The hiring process is like sales, there is a need to 'close' people so you create artificial pressure so you can get people to make a decision (and take them off the market).

nartz 12y ago

jakejake 12y ago

I've interviewed before where, once the offer was made, they did want me to decide rather quickly. This was a startup that was reputable, popular and growing extremely quickly. However they didn't make me feel as if I was racing against other candidates for the spot - they just wanted to get to work. I would just make sure to do your research and see if you can find anything about this company or the main people involved and decide if you trust them. By the way - most startups will fail. That is the reality. If you are going to work at a startup you need to be willing to make risky career moves.

BurningFrog 12y ago

I understand wanting a quick answers so they can offer the job to candidate B or C before they accept other offers. But offering it to several people at once is not only really weird. It also a really poor algorithm. These people are bad engineers, and you do not want to work with them! Your interviewing and skills insecurities are a whole separate topic. When you go to a startup, you need to be ready for the job to end any day. If your current job is more secure, think about if you want to lose that.

DevX101 12y ago
> These people are bad engineers By OP's own admission, he's a bad engineer too. He should take it if the money is acceptable and he likes the company.
- zem 12y ago
  no, if you're a bad engineer you really want to work with people who are "doing it right", so that you can learn from them.

gojomo 12y ago

On the one hand: If you in fact "came to an agreement" on compensation, why are you still not on-board? Was your negotiating position actually, "if you offer me $X then I'll stop asking for more but still need some number of days to think"? Are you waiting to hear from other potential employers? Are there any red flags other than their impatience? On the other hand: If they've truly given multiple people offers simultaneously but said they'll only hire the one who accepts first, that's a bit of a red flag. (Are you sure they don't just need your definitive no to issue an offer to their next-choice?) Often exploding offers are just bluster: if you made sense as a hire on this Monday, you'll usually make sense as a hire on the next Monday as well. Back to the first hand: You haven't quantified at all the deadlines they've suggested or that you think would be reasonable. Maybe they're sensing a red-flag from you: "We came up to a compensation number they agreed to, but they still haven't said they'll join or even given us a date-certain when they'll answer. We'd better force the issue. We've been burned before waiting for Hamlets to make up their mind!" Everyone wants to move fast, and be affirmatively wanted by their co-party. They don't just want to be a stalking-horse for a counter-offer from your current-employer, or your fall-back if another slower process falls through. How much time would you want to take to decide, and what new information would you have after that much time goes by? They may legitimately think that if you're not enthusiastic now, just after the interviews and negotiations, then N more days of holding a spot for you isn't going to help.

yahth 12y ago
> Maybe they're sensing a red-flag from you: "We came up to a compensation number they agreed to, but they still haven't said they'll join or even given us a date-certain when they'll answer. We'd better force the issue. We've been burned before waiting for Hamlets to make up their mind!" This is completely fair and I think they want to move fast being a small company and all. There's lot of interesting work to do and I'd like to help them do it. They seem like good people anyways. I'm mostly waiting to hear back from other interviews I've had. Thanks for your input.

crdoconnor 12y ago

It's a sales tactic. It usually means that they are lowballing you.

huhtenberg 12y ago
It doesn't "usually" mean that. They may simply need to get someone really quickly.
- crdoconnor 12y ago
  Unlikely. Training ramp up until a developer becomes fully productive usually takes months. Hiring quickly is a false economy if I ever saw one. The times when it's been used on me, the company in question has never been in a hurry to hire.

IgorPartola 12y ago

Chances are there is nothing nefarious going on here, just incompetence. This company probably thinks they have stumbled onto the magic hiring formula. They are not the first or last to reinvent terrible hiring or management practices. Personally, I would refuse such an offer, and tell them why. Maybe they will learn. As for being a bad interviewee and developer, shoot me an email. I am not in SF, but I am a strong interviewer/interviewee and if you want I can do a mock/practice interview with you. As for being a bad developer, the secret truth is that most of us are terrible until we learn enough to be less terrible. We usually learn on the job, not before it. There are brilliant programmers out there, but you don't need to be brilliant to contribute value to an organization.

yahth 12y ago
> Chances are there is nothing nefarious going on here... I agree, and I should have probably mentioned that in my initial comment. I just don't know how common this sort of thing is. They seem like good people, and there's a lot of work to do. maybe after doing some work like that I won't be so terrible. :) Thanks!
nnd 12y ago
A bit offtopic, but... Can you give us any advice on how to solve interview challenges faster and unstick under the pressure?
- imsofuture 12y ago
  Practice!
  - nnd 12y ago
    Sure there is not substitute for it, but I was looking for a more specific advice on how to practice.
- zo1 12y ago
  Easy: Don't agree with it (unless you're really desperate for the job). The amount of times when "quick thinking" and "fast-solution, now, give it, before this clock ticks!!" actually happens in day-to-day situations is ridiculously tiny. So testing for it in an interview is pointless, and I'd tell them just that.

MichaelCrawford 12y ago

If there is anything I regret about my career, it is that many times I have agreed to things without really taking time to think them through. It would be reasonable for them to provide a specific deadline, so that they could offer the job to someone else if you were to totally blow them off by not replying. It's better to be broke and hungry than to take a job that you later regret.

hkmurakami 12y ago

1-2 weeks is reasonable. I've had an exploding offer of 2 days given to me before. That was negotiable if they wanted you and you just said "thx but I need longer". YMMV.

jacquesm 12y ago

Never ever agree to anything at all under pressure. If that's what it takes for the offering party they are either incompetent or malicious there is no pay-off in finding out which. That goes for hiring offers but also for any other kind of offer. The one exception I can think of for exploding offers is if a key employee has left and the company will lose direction if the position isn't filled immediately. This normally is not the case in start-ups.

mind_heist 12y ago

Well - While a bunch of folks here are telling this could be a red flag (and rethink / walk away ), I just want to present the other side of the story. (1) Managers/Companies also have deadlines when it comes to hiring a candidate. And if there is an impending "Hiring Freeze" that is about to be enforced , the desperation to hire someone goes up. This happens in large companies ( I m not sure about startups though); In these cases - the hiring Managers feel its OK for a candidate fall short of a bunch of expectations . They might as well have a resource that can get some work done , instead of not hiring any one ( and be stuck with one less resource for the next few months) . Most of the hiring freezes last one quarter. Sometimes , it might last two quarters - and it mounts a lot of pressure on the existing members of the team. (2) Hiring managers (sometimes) look for potential than what you are currently capable of. You might have not the exact skills they are looking for - but you might have shown enough enthusiasm about the role / and might have strong indicators that you could get the job done for them. Its fairly possible either one of these or both could be happening in your case.

tw8845 12y ago

Go with your gut. If it doesn't feel right, don't do it. This advice has never served me wrong, although I have been burned plenty of times before by attempts to rationalize around red flags.

err4nt 12y ago

My take on the situation is that if they are hiring the first (pre-approved) person to say 'Yes!' for a position, then they care more about the position than the person. My gut says that you wouldn't have sufficient job security, because to them, even in the hiring process you're expendable and intercheangeable. You're lucky if they used your name instead of 'Dear Applicant' so they could just blast out the same message to all candidates. Work for people who value your person, and say: "I'm willing to pay x dollars to have YOU on the team!" If it was me and this situation went down, it would be hard, but I would reply with this: "I would love to work with you, but at this point it doesn't seem clear that you want to work with me. Let me know when you are certain that I am the person you want on the team, and we can talk about my availability at that time."

saluki 12y ago

It is a red flag, but they may be in a hurry to get someone on board or maybe misspoke about first to say yes is in. If you think you can learn, level up your skills there and the compensation is satisfactory I would lean toward accepting. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Don't let an opportunity slip by. You can always give it a go, see how you like it, learn and add to your resume. Then if it's not working out you can look for a new position.

fsk 12y ago

I've had job offers revoked, but that happened when I was unemployed at the time. If they're disorganized or unethical, that increases the chance they will fail in 3-12 months. It also increases the chance that you might feel the need to leave again after working there.

gorbachev 12y ago

Go with your gut feeling. Something is making you unsteady about the company. Either clarify it with the company or decline the offer. Either way don't accept an offer you have reservations.

6a68 12y ago

Exploding offers are a standard move in the VC startup playbook. You're probably going to get a standard "just an engineer" startup experience. Is this what you want? Here, read this and think it over: https://al3x.net/2013/05/23/letter-to-a-young-programmer.html https://al3x.net/2013/05/23/letter-to-a-young-programmer.htm...