5 ms·

In my own view, as a reform Jew, many of the Kosher for Passover items that even Orthodox consume are loopholes anyway, like Kosher for Passover cakes. In the

In my own view, as a reform Jew, many of the Kosher for Passover items that even Orthodox consume are loopholes anyway, like Kosher for Passover cakes. In the words of my friend - "OK, we eat Matzah because when we left Egypt we didn't have time to let the bread rise. But somehow we had time to beat the egg-whites stiff?" For those that don't know, during Passover, the spirit of the law is that we don't eat leavened bread. But it's codified such that IIRC there are five restricted grains, with 18 mins to cook after coming in contact with water. Nowadays, companies make rabbi-approved products such as cookies, cakes, and even generic Cheerios, which are for all intents and purposes leavened, but 'within spec'. * - If you're wondering, IMHO the Kosher for Passover cakes and imitation cheerios are still pretty horrible, more-so the texture than taste. Maybe they're intentionally left this way to remind us they're not the 'real thing'.

reuven 12y ago
How about this: The Egyptians invented yeast and leavened bread, and worshipped sheep. So how did Jews celebrate Passover, and the exodus from Egypt? By sacrificing a sheep, and refraining from eating anything made with yeast. When the Temple was destroyed in Jerusalem, the sacrifice disappeared. Only the eating restrictions (beyond regular holiday restrictions) remained. Over the years, different communities decided that other foods looked like grains, or acted like grains, or could be confused with grains. So they (e.g., corn, rice, and lentils) were restricted, as well, as part of this "spirit." In Israel, I'm happy to say that you can get anything you want on Passover, except for things made with the original five grains and allowed to leaven (yes, for 18 minutes). You can have just about anything you want. Which is just fine with me; the point of Passover isn't to suffer, but rather to go without leavened bread for a week. There's nothing inherently wrong with having kosher for Passover cakes. But once you have one, you'll avoid ever doing so again, I promise. (The kosher-for-Passover "rolls" are even worse!) I don't see having such cakes as a loophole, or even contrary to the spirit of the holiday, because the spirit of the holiday is to avoid leavened and bread products.
- jeffwass 12y ago
  >I don't see having such cakes as a loophole, or even contrary to the spirit of the holiday, because the spirit of the holiday is to avoid leavened and bread products. I don't follow you here. Cakes are leavened, and the spirit of the holiday is to avoid leavened products. In my view, that makes the Kosher for Passover cakes (which are effectively leavened) a loophole. Or are you suggesting the Kosher for Passover cakes are not really leavened?
  - reuven 12y ago
    Yes. Kosher-for-Passover cakes don't fall under the rules of leavening (chametz) in Jewish law. Sometimes they're made with potato flour. (Yuck.) Sometimes they're made with matza meal, which means very finely ground pieces of matza. The idea is that once flour has been wet and baked into matza, further contact with water won't leaven it. Some Jews don't accept this "wet matza" rule, but the majority do. If someone made kosher-for-Passover cakes that were hard to distinguish from regular, year-round leavened cakes, then you might have a point, and perhaps they would be forbidden. But I don't think that anyone is ever going to make that claim. So given that they're different from year-round cakes, and given that they're not leavened anyway according to Jewish law, they're considered acceptable. Pro tip: Ice cream on kosher-for-Passover cakes makes them far more palatable.
    - davemel37 12y ago
      It's not really fair to have this discussion on Shabbos/Sabbath when the people who really know are unplugged from the internet.
      - reuven 12y ago
        Um, I really know (or at least I think that I know). I don't use a computer on the Sabbath. But I live in Israel, where it ended on Saturday evening, Israel time. And I was foolish/addicted enough to check HN after Shabbat ended. I did, however, think that it was pretty funny that American Jews who know and can weigh in on the subject were unable to participate in much of the discussion!

reuven 12y ago

How about this: The Egyptians invented yeast and leavened bread, and worshipped sheep. So how did Jews celebrate Passover, and the exodus from Egypt? By sacrificing a sheep, and refraining from eating anything made with yeast. When the Temple was destroyed in Jerusalem, the sacrifice disappeared. Only the eating restrictions (beyond regular holiday restrictions) remained. Over the years, different communities decided that other foods looked like grains, or acted like grains, or could be confused with grains. So they (e.g., corn, rice, and lentils) were restricted, as well, as part of this "spirit." In Israel, I'm happy to say that you can get anything you want on Passover, except for things made with the original five grains and allowed to leaven (yes, for 18 minutes). You can have just about anything you want. Which is just fine with me; the point of Passover isn't to suffer, but rather to go without leavened bread for a week. There's nothing inherently wrong with having kosher for Passover cakes. But once you have one, you'll avoid ever doing so again, I promise. (The kosher-for-Passover "rolls" are even worse!) I don't see having such cakes as a loophole, or even contrary to the spirit of the holiday, because the spirit of the holiday is to avoid leavened and bread products.

jeffwass 12y ago
>I don't see having such cakes as a loophole, or even contrary to the spirit of the holiday, because the spirit of the holiday is to avoid leavened and bread products. I don't follow you here. Cakes are leavened, and the spirit of the holiday is to avoid leavened products. In my view, that makes the Kosher for Passover cakes (which are effectively leavened) a loophole. Or are you suggesting the Kosher for Passover cakes are not really leavened?
- reuven 12y ago
  Yes. Kosher-for-Passover cakes don't fall under the rules of leavening (chametz) in Jewish law. Sometimes they're made with potato flour. (Yuck.) Sometimes they're made with matza meal, which means very finely ground pieces of matza. The idea is that once flour has been wet and baked into matza, further contact with water won't leaven it. Some Jews don't accept this "wet matza" rule, but the majority do. If someone made kosher-for-Passover cakes that were hard to distinguish from regular, year-round leavened cakes, then you might have a point, and perhaps they would be forbidden. But I don't think that anyone is ever going to make that claim. So given that they're different from year-round cakes, and given that they're not leavened anyway according to Jewish law, they're considered acceptable. Pro tip: Ice cream on kosher-for-Passover cakes makes them far more palatable.
  - davemel37 12y ago
    It's not really fair to have this discussion on Shabbos/Sabbath when the people who really know are unplugged from the internet.
    - reuven 12y ago
      Um, I really know (or at least I think that I know). I don't use a computer on the Sabbath. But I live in Israel, where it ended on Saturday evening, Israel time. And I was foolish/addicted enough to check HN after Shabbat ended. I did, however, think that it was pretty funny that American Jews who know and can weigh in on the subject were unable to participate in much of the discussion!