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Did you end up eating them? I'd find it hard to eat them as I'd end up feeling like they were pets. Do you have any photos of them standing on your car or bike?

Did you end up eating them? I'd find it hard to eat them as I'd end up feeling like they were pets. Do you have any photos of them standing on your car or bike??!!

Diederich 12y ago
We did indeed eat some of them, but the meat wasn't as tasty as traditionally farm-raised animals. Ours lived mostly free-range, which is very good for them, but it makes their meat less 'yummy'. The meat most everyone (who eats meat) likes usually comes from animals who don't get very much exercise, and so has a lot less 'density' (not sure how to properly describe it.) We also sold a number of them to Muslim friends and their associates for Eid al-Fitr, and even allowed them to consecrate part of our property to do the sacrifice. Previously they could find no place within hundreds of miles that would allow them to do that. That we were (and are) Christians, who not only allowed them to do this, but even encouraged it, kind of blew their minds. :) I'll see if I can dig up some pics. It's a funny thing how so often you don't end up taking pictures of really neat, but daily things, but wish you did.
- qt7 12y ago
  It blows my mind how you can enjoy the company of an animal and then not only eat them -- somewhat understandable as we need to eat to stay alive -- but... encouraging their ritual slaughtering? I'm speechless. Not only "ritual" and "slaughtering" are words that should give goosebumps when used together, but even encouraging it, when you don't even believe in that barbaric procedure, it's frankly inhumane.
  - boomlinde 12y ago
    I don't think that the ritual slaughter of islam and conventional slaughter are different enough for the line between barbaric and non-barbaric to coincidentally somehow end up right between them. As for slaughtering an animal that you've enjoyed the company of, I'm not sure how it is any worse than slaughtering an animal you didn't enjoy the company of. The former will give you a more intimate understanding of the impact your eating habits have, if anything.
    - david-given 12y ago
      My grandparents retired in Australia to a shoreside community with a golf course and Women's Circle. They stood it for about six months and then dropped out to become smallholders. My grandmother was utterly sentimental; they always kept a calf, which was always called Bully, which was slaughtered after a year or so. She was quite capable of chomping though a steak while saying 'Bully was such a lovely calf that year'... They did, however, tell stories (possibly true) about another couple of smallholders down the road who could never bear to slaughter their own pigs. So what they'd do was swap. These days we are completely out of touch with where our food comes from.
    - qt7 12y ago
      The only civil reply to my comment above. We may not share the same opinion, but I appreciate your considerate response. My post above probably came out too harsh, that was unintended. > I don't think that the ritual slaughter of islam and conventional slaughter are different enough for the line between barbaric and non-barbaric to coincidentally somehow end up right between them. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/outcry-after-undercover-film-exposes-brutality-of-halal-industry-10019467.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/outcry-after-... > As for slaughtering an animal that you've enjoyed the company of, I'm not sure how it is any worse than slaughtering an animal you didn't enjoy the company of. If you actually believe that which you're saying, you'd have no problem slaughtering your dog.
      - boomlinde 12y ago
        Islamic ritual slaughter explicitly does not involve blunt force or death from falling. The animal is killed not by hacking, sawing or jumping at its throat, but by making a single clean cut at it with a non-serrated blade, which is not to be shown to the animal. I'm really not trying to make a true scotsman argument here, but unnecessarily brutal treatment of animals is prevalent through the whole meat industry and sadly can't be pinned down to a particular religious practice or tradition. I personally believe that this is an inherent problem of the industry. I think that repetitively performing these jobs hundreds of times a day requires that you have absolutely no emotional investment in the animals. Add to that otherwise stressful conditions, and you have to take care not to develop sadistic tendencies and loathing of the animals. > If you actually believe that which you're saying, you'd have no problem slaughtering your dog. I'd have a problem slaughtering my dog, but that's besides the point. I just don't believe that it would somehow be less humane than slaughtering some other animal. In fact, if I were to slaughter my dog, I'd probably take extra care to do it in the most humane way possible.
  - IgorPartola 12y ago
    So... you are saying you aren't going to eat that high horse?
  - owtM 12y ago
    Growing up in a white upper middle class suburb must have been so eye opening! Please tell us more.
    - dang 12y ago
      Personal attacks are not allowed on Hacker News.
  - Diederich 12y ago
    I'll let the other responses to your comment, for the most part, speak for my thoughts as well. To that I will add: I have always felt slightly conflicted about killing another living thing to eat it. But, if we are going to eat meat, I think there is some value in seeing where it comes from. As far as the animals end, I always ensured the animal was eating some of its favourite feed, out by itself, when I shot it in the brain, top to bottom, with a .30-06. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1903_Springfield http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1903_Springfield) I'd argue that there's no easier way to die; the animal feels nothing. Though the shooter has something of a mess to deal with. All in all, I'm kind of ok with this.
Diederich 12y ago
We're still trying to sell our farm: http://www.realms.org/selling.html http://www.realms.org/selling.html The pics are here: http://www.realms.org/selling/ http://www.realms.org/selling/ None of the goats are on conveyances, and you'll notice the fences and ropes, because this was pretty early on while we were still securing the borders of our property.
- sebkomianos 12y ago
  It looks like a nice place to live/grow up, why are you selling it - if you don't mind me asking? I am seriously considering living moving to the countryside in a few years and I am gathering all the information/knowledge/experience I can.
  - Diederich 12y ago
    The only (substantive) high-tech employer in that area laid me and a whole bunch of other people off, so we moved to silicon valley in 2009. We really like it out here, though it's insanely expensive, we're getting along well. More importantly, there is a lot more cultural diversity out here in Santa Clara County, California compared to McDonald County, Missouri. We prefer that our son grow in a more diverse environment. Send me an e-mail if you want to chat more about living in the country; to me, it's a very interesting topic. We spent a lot of time exploring various aspects of sustainability.
DanBC 12y ago
To milk a goat she needs to have had kids. The female kids can be sold on to other people who want milking goats. The billy kids get sold on for meat. It's pretty tough giving up a few days old goat kid for slaughter. (Two Anglo-Nubians, long dead now).
- Diederich 12y ago
  Correct, we kept the females for milk. Most of the males were sold.

Did you end up eating them? I'd find it hard to eat them as I'd end up feeling like they were pets. Do you have any photos of them standing on your car or bike??!!

Diederich 12y ago

We did indeed eat some of them, but the meat wasn't as tasty as traditionally farm-raised animals. Ours lived mostly free-range, which is very good for them, but it makes their meat less 'yummy'. The meat most everyone (who eats meat) likes usually comes from animals who don't get very much exercise, and so has a lot less 'density' (not sure how to properly describe it.) We also sold a number of them to Muslim friends and their associates for Eid al-Fitr, and even allowed them to consecrate part of our property to do the sacrifice. Previously they could find no place within hundreds of miles that would allow them to do that. That we were (and are) Christians, who not only allowed them to do this, but even encouraged it, kind of blew their minds. :) I'll see if I can dig up some pics. It's a funny thing how so often you don't end up taking pictures of really neat, but daily things, but wish you did.

qt7 12y ago
It blows my mind how you can enjoy the company of an animal and then not only eat them -- somewhat understandable as we need to eat to stay alive -- but... encouraging their ritual slaughtering? I'm speechless. Not only "ritual" and "slaughtering" are words that should give goosebumps when used together, but even encouraging it, when you don't even believe in that barbaric procedure, it's frankly inhumane.
- boomlinde 12y ago
  I don't think that the ritual slaughter of islam and conventional slaughter are different enough for the line between barbaric and non-barbaric to coincidentally somehow end up right between them. As for slaughtering an animal that you've enjoyed the company of, I'm not sure how it is any worse than slaughtering an animal you didn't enjoy the company of. The former will give you a more intimate understanding of the impact your eating habits have, if anything.
  - david-given 12y ago
    My grandparents retired in Australia to a shoreside community with a golf course and Women's Circle. They stood it for about six months and then dropped out to become smallholders. My grandmother was utterly sentimental; they always kept a calf, which was always called Bully, which was slaughtered after a year or so. She was quite capable of chomping though a steak while saying 'Bully was such a lovely calf that year'... They did, however, tell stories (possibly true) about another couple of smallholders down the road who could never bear to slaughter their own pigs. So what they'd do was swap. These days we are completely out of touch with where our food comes from.
  - qt7 12y ago
    The only civil reply to my comment above. We may not share the same opinion, but I appreciate your considerate response. My post above probably came out too harsh, that was unintended. > I don't think that the ritual slaughter of islam and conventional slaughter are different enough for the line between barbaric and non-barbaric to coincidentally somehow end up right between them. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/outcry-after-undercover-film-exposes-brutality-of-halal-industry-10019467.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/outcry-after-... > As for slaughtering an animal that you've enjoyed the company of, I'm not sure how it is any worse than slaughtering an animal you didn't enjoy the company of. If you actually believe that which you're saying, you'd have no problem slaughtering your dog.
    - boomlinde 12y ago
      Islamic ritual slaughter explicitly does not involve blunt force or death from falling. The animal is killed not by hacking, sawing or jumping at its throat, but by making a single clean cut at it with a non-serrated blade, which is not to be shown to the animal. I'm really not trying to make a true scotsman argument here, but unnecessarily brutal treatment of animals is prevalent through the whole meat industry and sadly can't be pinned down to a particular religious practice or tradition. I personally believe that this is an inherent problem of the industry. I think that repetitively performing these jobs hundreds of times a day requires that you have absolutely no emotional investment in the animals. Add to that otherwise stressful conditions, and you have to take care not to develop sadistic tendencies and loathing of the animals. > If you actually believe that which you're saying, you'd have no problem slaughtering your dog. I'd have a problem slaughtering my dog, but that's besides the point. I just don't believe that it would somehow be less humane than slaughtering some other animal. In fact, if I were to slaughter my dog, I'd probably take extra care to do it in the most humane way possible.
- IgorPartola 12y ago
  So... you are saying you aren't going to eat that high horse?
- owtM 12y ago
  Growing up in a white upper middle class suburb must have been so eye opening! Please tell us more.
  - dang 12y ago
    Personal attacks are not allowed on Hacker News.
- Diederich 12y ago
  I'll let the other responses to your comment, for the most part, speak for my thoughts as well. To that I will add: I have always felt slightly conflicted about killing another living thing to eat it. But, if we are going to eat meat, I think there is some value in seeing where it comes from. As far as the animals end, I always ensured the animal was eating some of its favourite feed, out by itself, when I shot it in the brain, top to bottom, with a .30-06. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1903_Springfield http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1903_Springfield) I'd argue that there's no easier way to die; the animal feels nothing. Though the shooter has something of a mess to deal with. All in all, I'm kind of ok with this.

Diederich 12y ago

We're still trying to sell our farm: http://www.realms.org/selling.html http://www.realms.org/selling.html The pics are here: http://www.realms.org/selling/ http://www.realms.org/selling/ None of the goats are on conveyances, and you'll notice the fences and ropes, because this was pretty early on while we were still securing the borders of our property.

sebkomianos 12y ago
It looks like a nice place to live/grow up, why are you selling it - if you don't mind me asking? I am seriously considering living moving to the countryside in a few years and I am gathering all the information/knowledge/experience I can.
- Diederich 12y ago
  The only (substantive) high-tech employer in that area laid me and a whole bunch of other people off, so we moved to silicon valley in 2009. We really like it out here, though it's insanely expensive, we're getting along well. More importantly, there is a lot more cultural diversity out here in Santa Clara County, California compared to McDonald County, Missouri. We prefer that our son grow in a more diverse environment. Send me an e-mail if you want to chat more about living in the country; to me, it's a very interesting topic. We spent a lot of time exploring various aspects of sustainability.

DanBC 12y ago

To milk a goat she needs to have had kids. The female kids can be sold on to other people who want milking goats. The billy kids get sold on for meat. It's pretty tough giving up a few days old goat kid for slaughter. (Two Anglo-Nubians, long dead now).

Diederich 12y ago
Correct, we kept the females for milk. Most of the males were sold.