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He's an offensive lineman. It wouldn't surprise me if there is less head trauma in that position than in others. They make contact with other players with les

He's an offensive lineman. It wouldn't surprise me if there is less head trauma in that position than in others. They make contact with other players with less time for anyone to get to full speed. The guys they're hitting aren't generally going in exactly the opposite direction, the way defenders' targets are. That contact is mostly on the body. And they aren't targets the way ball carriers are. Also, they're some of the biggest guys on the field. That means they've got more neck muscle holding their head in place.

thompo 12y ago
linemen literally bash their heads together on every play. it would actually be a huge surprise to me if there was less head trauma at that position.
- privong 12y ago
  I think it is more complicated than that, because the impact speed is important too. The linemen come at each other from close distances. So they may not build up as much speed, compared to a situation such as a linebacker with a running start towards a running back.
  - Retra 12y ago
    Impact speed is important to the effectiveness of a collision. That's why they train to maximize this speed. Saying "the speed isn't high" in a context where maximum speed is a goal isn't a very good argument for safety. I mean, if I were an exceptionally speedy, brick-wall linebacker, I wouldn't get kicked out for causing extra concussions, I'd be given trophies and expensive contracts.
    - privong 12y ago
      > Impact speed is important to the effectiveness of a collision. That's why they train to maximize this speed. Saying "the speed isn't high" in a context where maximum speed is a goal isn't a very good argument for safety. I think you are conflating speed and quickness. Offensive and defensive lines rely on quickness (i.e., acceleration) to beat the opposing team and make a play, while other collisions (e.g., tackling) often involve speed. I am not saying that linesmen should not be expected to sometimes suffer head trauma; I was just noting that how often a player runs into another player is not the only factor.
      - Retra 12y ago
        I'm not conflating anything, I'm using standard physics terms. If you want to trample over the defense you need momentum, which is a function of speed. Sounds to me like you're arguing for no reason.
        judk 12y ago
        Or you need to get to a desired position first,which is a function of total time, not top speed.
firebones 12y ago
Depends on the position on the line. The interactive chart here [1] shows that concussions by position for one year. Tackles have a much higher incidence than the center, the guards or the defensive linemen. Wide receivers, running backs, the defensive secondary and linebackers have a lot more though. The guys on the line have so many more reps in games and in practices that the damage is of more of a chronic nature. [1] http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/concussion-watch/#positions_2014 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/concussion-watch/#po...
- ScottBurson 12y ago
  Ah, very interesting. I wouldn't have guessed that tackles (11) have almost twice the risk of guards (6) -- maybe they tend to get farther downfield on run plays? I looked through the 11 tackle concussions listed, and only one said what type of play it was (a run play); another one was from being kneed in the head. Centers (3), OTOH, have by this estimate about half the risk of guards (6). This guy should move to center. That's where you want someone really smart anyway as centers have to set up blocking assignments at the line. Also I see the scouting report recommended him for center based on his body type and playing style.
ScottBurson 12y ago
They make contact with other players with less time for anyone to get to full speed. The guys they're hitting aren't generally going in exactly the opposite direction, the way defenders' targets are. There's probably some truth in this, but as a guard, he has to pull and lead on outside runs occasionally. Plus there's always a chance of getting kneed in the head in a pileup. The risk is far from zero. He may also be asked to play on special teams, where the risk is probably the greatest.
logic404 12y ago
He's an offensive lineman. It wouldn't surprise me if there is less head trauma in that position than in others. Here's some data wrt to OL being the worst position actually. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/10/19/offensive-play http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/10/19/offensive-play This is a crucial point. Much of the attention in the football world, in the past few years, has been on concussions—on diagnosing, managing, and preventing them—and on figuring out how many concussions a player can have before he should call it quits. But a football player’s real issue isn’t simply with repetitive concussive trauma. It is, as the concussion specialist Robert Cantu argues, with repetitive subconcussive trauma. It’s not just the handful of big hits that matter. It’s lots of little hits, too. That’s why, Cantu says, so many of the ex-players who have been given a diagnosis of C.T.E. were linemen: line play lends itself to lots of little hits.
wdr1 12y ago
> He's an offensive lineman. It wouldn't surprise me if there is less head trauma in that position than in others. I'd be very surprised if that was true. I got my bell rung more than a few times when I played in high school & college. Keep in mind linemen are making intense physical contact every single play of the game. If it's a run play, it's unlikely receivers are getting knocked around, but linemen are.

thompo 12y ago

linemen literally bash their heads together on every play. it would actually be a huge surprise to me if there was less head trauma at that position.

privong 12y ago
I think it is more complicated than that, because the impact speed is important too. The linemen come at each other from close distances. So they may not build up as much speed, compared to a situation such as a linebacker with a running start towards a running back.
- Retra 12y ago
  Impact speed is important to the effectiveness of a collision. That's why they train to maximize this speed. Saying "the speed isn't high" in a context where maximum speed is a goal isn't a very good argument for safety. I mean, if I were an exceptionally speedy, brick-wall linebacker, I wouldn't get kicked out for causing extra concussions, I'd be given trophies and expensive contracts.
  - privong 12y ago
    > Impact speed is important to the effectiveness of a collision. That's why they train to maximize this speed. Saying "the speed isn't high" in a context where maximum speed is a goal isn't a very good argument for safety. I think you are conflating speed and quickness. Offensive and defensive lines rely on quickness (i.e., acceleration) to beat the opposing team and make a play, while other collisions (e.g., tackling) often involve speed. I am not saying that linesmen should not be expected to sometimes suffer head trauma; I was just noting that how often a player runs into another player is not the only factor.
    - Retra 12y ago
      I'm not conflating anything, I'm using standard physics terms. If you want to trample over the defense you need momentum, which is a function of speed. Sounds to me like you're arguing for no reason.
      - judk 12y ago
        Or you need to get to a desired position first,which is a function of total time, not top speed.

firebones 12y ago

Depends on the position on the line. The interactive chart here [1] shows that concussions by position for one year. Tackles have a much higher incidence than the center, the guards or the defensive linemen. Wide receivers, running backs, the defensive secondary and linebackers have a lot more though. The guys on the line have so many more reps in games and in practices that the damage is of more of a chronic nature. [1] http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/concussion-watch/#positions_2014 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/concussion-watch/#po...

ScottBurson 12y ago
Ah, very interesting. I wouldn't have guessed that tackles (11) have almost twice the risk of guards (6) -- maybe they tend to get farther downfield on run plays? I looked through the 11 tackle concussions listed, and only one said what type of play it was (a run play); another one was from being kneed in the head. Centers (3), OTOH, have by this estimate about half the risk of guards (6). This guy should move to center. That's where you want someone really smart anyway as centers have to set up blocking assignments at the line. Also I see the scouting report recommended him for center based on his body type and playing style.

ScottBurson 12y ago

They make contact with other players with less time for anyone to get to full speed. The guys they're hitting aren't generally going in exactly the opposite direction, the way defenders' targets are. There's probably some truth in this, but as a guard, he has to pull and lead on outside runs occasionally. Plus there's always a chance of getting kneed in the head in a pileup. The risk is far from zero. He may also be asked to play on special teams, where the risk is probably the greatest.

logic404 12y ago

He's an offensive lineman. It wouldn't surprise me if there is less head trauma in that position than in others. Here's some data wrt to OL being the worst position actually. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/10/19/offensive-play http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/10/19/offensive-play This is a crucial point. Much of the attention in the football world, in the past few years, has been on concussions—on diagnosing, managing, and preventing them—and on figuring out how many concussions a player can have before he should call it quits. But a football player’s real issue isn’t simply with repetitive concussive trauma. It is, as the concussion specialist Robert Cantu argues, with repetitive subconcussive trauma. It’s not just the handful of big hits that matter. It’s lots of little hits, too. That’s why, Cantu says, so many of the ex-players who have been given a diagnosis of C.T.E. were linemen: line play lends itself to lots of little hits.

wdr1 12y ago

> He's an offensive lineman. It wouldn't surprise me if there is less head trauma in that position than in others. I'd be very surprised if that was true. I got my bell rung more than a few times when I played in high school & college. Keep in mind linemen are making intense physical contact every single play of the game. If it's a run play, it's unlikely receivers are getting knocked around, but linemen are.