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Disclaimer: I'm Jewish and religious, but not Orthodox; I don't worry about sabbath mode as I have no problem turning on an oven during shabbat; it's not work.

by judah 12y ago

Disclaimer: I'm Jewish and religious, but not Orthodox; I don't worry about sabbath mode as I have no problem turning on an oven during shabbat; it's not work. That said, if you ask Orthodox Jews, they will say it's not circumventing the laws about shabbat. Rather, it's keeping the laws of shabbat -- avoiding all forms of work -- while still living in the modern world. To circumvent the law would be to find a way that allows us to work on shabbat. Shabbat mode doesn't do that.

Shalomm 12y ago
To extend on parent comment: What you call "circumvent your religion's practices", ie building complicated logical arguments or creating new categories and distinctions to re-interpret existing law is considered as a significant part of Jewish religion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud#Pilpul https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud#Pilpul In that aspect, Judaism is very different from, say, Christianity.
- ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
  Except for Karaites who don't believe in the Talmud or Oral Torah.
- ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
  Or quite a few Jews who lived prior to the invention of Rabbinic Judaism.
- ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
  Well (and I hate reply spamming here but I keep thinking of new things) The Talmud and Mishnah were written hundreds of years after the birth of Jesus. And in the first century, the Pharisees (or proto-Rabbinics, or whatever) were only one sect amongst many. So yes, Christianity followed on a different path than Judaism.
  - _pius 12y ago
    I hate reply spamming here but I keep thinking of new things Just as a heads up, you can edit your comments within a certain window of time.
  - maaku 12y ago
    The Jerusalem church, maybe, which didn't survive 70 CE. Modern Christianity descends from Paul and was pretty much made up in a very significant break from Jewish tradition.
    - ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
      True, that makes (most forms) of Christianity today cousins to Rabbinic Judaism, as opposed to siblings (like early Judeo-Christianity and its extinct descendants-Ebionites, Nazarenes, etc).
gweinberg 12y ago
Well, maybe. I don't understand the argument that you are "doing work" when a light automatically comes on for you in the first place. I can see arguing that opening a refrigerator is work, or that it isn't, but I can't see coming to a different conclusion if a light comes on when you open it. I would have made a crappy rabbi.
- krebby 12y ago
  The act of turning on an oven or opening a refrigerator isn't "doing work", but igniting a fire (and by extension completing a circuit) is.
- ScottBurson 12y ago
  > I would have made a crappy rabbi. Me too. When someone asked me whether such-and-so was work, I would have just said, "Use your judgment. If it feels like work, it's work."
  - ars 12y ago
    Work is not a correct translation though. You can carry heavy furniture in your house, but not a feather on the street. And the reason for that is that it's not about work, but about creative action.
- reuven 12y ago
  The term "work" is a very inaccurate (but popular) translation of the Jewish legal term, "melacha." There are certain categories of said "work," and rabbis throughout the ages have tried to figure out how to apply those terms to new situations and inventions. Whether operating electric lights is work is a new problem, but boiling water and cooking have been forbidden by Jewish law for at least 2,000 years.
- ars 12y ago
  > that you are "doing work" That's because work is not the correct translation. A better translation is "creative activity", i.e. creating things, like light. God stopped creating the world on the Sabbath, so Jews also stop creating things (and there is a specific list of what is included).

by judah 12y ago

Shalomm 12y ago

To extend on parent comment: What you call "circumvent your religion's practices", ie building complicated logical arguments or creating new categories and distinctions to re-interpret existing law is considered as a significant part of Jewish religion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud#Pilpul https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud#Pilpul In that aspect, Judaism is very different from, say, Christianity.

ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
Except for Karaites who don't believe in the Talmud or Oral Torah.
ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
Or quite a few Jews who lived prior to the invention of Rabbinic Judaism.
ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
Well (and I hate reply spamming here but I keep thinking of new things) The Talmud and Mishnah were written hundreds of years after the birth of Jesus. And in the first century, the Pharisees (or proto-Rabbinics, or whatever) were only one sect amongst many. So yes, Christianity followed on a different path than Judaism.
- _pius 12y ago
  I hate reply spamming here but I keep thinking of new things Just as a heads up, you can edit your comments within a certain window of time.
- maaku 12y ago
  The Jerusalem church, maybe, which didn't survive 70 CE. Modern Christianity descends from Paul and was pretty much made up in a very significant break from Jewish tradition.
  - ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
    True, that makes (most forms) of Christianity today cousins to Rabbinic Judaism, as opposed to siblings (like early Judeo-Christianity and its extinct descendants-Ebionites, Nazarenes, etc).

gweinberg 12y ago

Well, maybe. I don't understand the argument that you are "doing work" when a light automatically comes on for you in the first place. I can see arguing that opening a refrigerator is work, or that it isn't, but I can't see coming to a different conclusion if a light comes on when you open it. I would have made a crappy rabbi.

krebby 12y ago
The act of turning on an oven or opening a refrigerator isn't "doing work", but igniting a fire (and by extension completing a circuit) is.
ScottBurson 12y ago
> I would have made a crappy rabbi. Me too. When someone asked me whether such-and-so was work, I would have just said, "Use your judgment. If it feels like work, it's work."
- ars 12y ago
  Work is not a correct translation though. You can carry heavy furniture in your house, but not a feather on the street. And the reason for that is that it's not about work, but about creative action.
reuven 12y ago
The term "work" is a very inaccurate (but popular) translation of the Jewish legal term, "melacha." There are certain categories of said "work," and rabbis throughout the ages have tried to figure out how to apply those terms to new situations and inventions. Whether operating electric lights is work is a new problem, but boiling water and cooking have been forbidden by Jewish law for at least 2,000 years.
ars 12y ago
> that you are "doing work" That's because work is not the correct translation. A better translation is "creative activity", i.e. creating things, like light. God stopped creating the world on the Sabbath, so Jews also stop creating things (and there is a specific list of what is included).