6 ms·

Breast Milk Becomes a Commodity, with Mothers Caught Up in Debate

43 points by r0h1n 12y ago

littletimmy 12y ago
Is this a market now wholly because the United States has shit maternity leave laws, or would it be a market without it as well? For some cultures, there has been an employment category called "wet nurses" whose entire job was to look after an infant and breastfeed it as a mother would. Perhaps as society becomes more an more unequal, we'll see a resurgence of wet nurses for rich infants.
- smtddr 12y ago
  Got a 3 month old son and my wife is providing the milk. We're lucky in that, for some reason, oatmeal cookies or hot oatmeal cereal causes my wife to have an abundant supply. We're also lucky in that my high-paying tech job allows her to work only part time(2days/week) so she's home most of the time to feed the baby and pumps milk ahead of time when she won't be around. But some women can't produce enough milk or have lives that are too busy, but still want their child to receive the benefits of mother's milk. Anecdata tells me that women who are stressed out won't produce much milk, so... I assume that's a significant number of people right there. EDIT: Changed phrasing per reply
  - indians_pro 12y ago
    >overflowing fountain please- ahem avoid using phrases like that- EDIT : For god's sake people, it was a JOKE
- rayiner 12y ago
  We outsource almost everything women would, in earlier times, have had to stay home and do (cleaning, childcare, laundry, drycleaning, grocery shopping), so why not milk production as well? I know the process of feeding your infant is very fulfilling, but I've never heard anyone who liked the actual lactating part, which is pretty miserable.
  - smokey_the_bear 12y ago
    Pumping isn't great, but actually nursing a baby can be wonderful. It releases hormones, and is generally very relaxing for me if my baby is calm.
    - tomjen3 12y ago
      I imagine there is an evolutionary reason for that - but at the same time (if you don't mind me asking) how often is the baby calm?
      - smokey_the_bear 12y ago
        Both of mine have generally been calm. Nursing changes a lot as they get older, mine usually weren't interested in nursing when they've just eaten a lot of solids, or if there are distractions around, and being overtired is a whole other beast. I'd say now with my second baby, at 11 months, 90% of the bedtime and morning nursings are pleasant bonding experiences, and half of the daytime ones.
  - EliRivers 12y ago
    Milk production has been outsourced for a very long time [1]. We just now have the technology to move it reliably from supplier to anonymous recipient rather than having to have instantaneous transfer, and social attitudes in the US have swung back in favour of human milk rather than substitutes. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_nurse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_nurse
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- swatow 12y ago
  No, if you read the article, you'll see it is absolutely nothing to do with maternity leave. The article describes a market where companies pay women for breast milk that is left over after they have fed their own babies, and use it to produce a pharmaceutical product for premature babies. The controversy is between non-profits and for profit companies both doing this (but the non-profit doesn't pay the women).
- DominikR 12y ago
  While I agree that maternity leave laws are quite problematic for many women in the US it should also be mentioned that not every mother is able to breast feed their child. It's actually not that uncommon and in most cases these women are otherwise perfectly healthy and really want to breast feed. Many non-physiological factors play a role here. For example how much pressure does the mother feel or put on herself. (typically with the first child because it's a new experience) How much stress does she have and so on.
  - slowmovintarget 12y ago
    There are also factors where the baby is unable to develop proper latching and sucking technique. My daughter had a tongue-tie, which, while corrected on her second day out, left her with the wrong muscle impulses for nursing. We had to bottle feed her, and eventually the pumping wasn't enough to continue the supply, or allow the supply to fully "come in".
- prostoalex 12y ago
  The fact that women choose to have children at a later age can probably be traced to maternity leave laws (although it seems to be the trend in any developed career-oriented society, not just US). Later age is correlated with lower milk production, kicking up the demand http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/27/us-milk-production-idUSTRE66Q4YV20100727 http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/27/us-milk-production...
Iftheshoefits 12y ago
There are a lot of women who would prefer to breastfeed but can't for a variety of physiological reasons, so this market would at least have the potential to exist even if America's maternity leave laws weren't barbaric.
- rustynails 12y ago
  Can I ask why there is a need to exaggerate creeping into hacker news, particularly where it involves gender topics? Barbaric literally means: Savage, primitive, brutish. You don't help a cause with such inappropriate language. I switch off if people can't use non-political language and I'm a dad with young kids so the topic is relevant to my family.
  - hf 12y ago
    The word seems entirely appropriate. As a European, I have not been able to convince family members or friends that aren't intimately acquainted with the US-American situation that there is no universal, legislative framework for paid or unpaid maternity leave. They usually respond with a variation of "this can't be right; you must be misinformed; it would be horrible if that were the case." And you (as a populace) aren't even fighting for it! Not visibly, at least. So, honestly, you seem to be the one hurting all sorts of causes with this misdirected attitude of apologism.
    - todd_whitehead 12y ago
      Why should someone be paid for adding nothing of value to a company (by being on maternity leave)?
      - littletimmy 12y ago
        Same reason someone should be taxed to fund the police even if said person can afford a private security guard. Social good.
        12y ago
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- shubb 12y ago
  Wow, I'm really not sure how to judge your friend ethically... Providing a source of breast milk is really important. Providing a source of income for people who are poor enough that getting milked for $2 a day sounds good is important. But this is pretty clear exploitation. I think in poorer countries, living costs and incomes in urban areas are lower than in richer countries but not vastly so. However, out in the countryside, especially in areas where the farming is mostly subsistence, currency is hard to come by. When everything is okay, that isn't so important because people can get locally produced food and shelter, but when someone needs medical treatment or just imported building materials it is. However, the people in those areas are not very mobile. There may be a minibus network or similar, but getting to a major urban centre is a big deal, costs a significant amount. You could set up a deal NGO clinics where those exist. I don't know much about Cambodia though personally... But yeah, I don't know if he's doing a good thing or a terrible thing.
  - ionwake 12y ago
    What was the comment?
    - shubb 12y ago
      Something pretty nutty honestly. I wondered if it was a parody.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
sii 12y ago
This is interesting. For comparison, in Sweden you donate (sell) milk directly to hospitals where it is handled locally and given to prematurely born children in the hospital. The prices are set locally by each hospital but is currently at around $20-30 usd / liter, and has been raised a number of times over the last 10 years to encourage more people to donate milk. Hospitals buy milk from each other when necessary for somewhere around $100 per liter. Donated milk is usually only accepted for the first three months after the donating mothers child was born. All equipment (pumps, bottles etc.) are provided by the hospital. That said, I would encourage as many people as possible to donate milk, it makes a huge difference for those tiny prematurely born babies.
beagle3 12y ago
I've heard stories of ultra-expensive breastmilk that is mixed from many donors - it supposedly gives the newborn antibodies from all those moms (expressed in the breastmilk - that's where babies get their antibodies until their own immune systems kick in). Does anyone have more info? There's a similar concept for general antibody donation, which is given to the immune compromised, called intravenous immuno-globulin (IVIG)[0], which is extremely effective at modulating the immune system and enhancing immunity. Basically, they take blood donations, purify only (some) antibodies, and mix some 10,000 donors so that the resulting donation is well-rounded in its contents. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intravenous_immunoglobulin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intravenous_immunoglobulin

43 points by r0h1n 12y ago

Is this a market now wholly because the United States has shit maternity leave laws, or would it be a market without it as well? For some cultures, there has been an employment category called "wet nurses" whose entire job was to look after an infant and breastfeed it as a mother would. Perhaps as society becomes more an more unequal, we'll see a resurgence of wet nurses for rich infants.

smtddr 12y ago
Got a 3 month old son and my wife is providing the milk. We're lucky in that, for some reason, oatmeal cookies or hot oatmeal cereal causes my wife to have an abundant supply. We're also lucky in that my high-paying tech job allows her to work only part time(2days/week) so she's home most of the time to feed the baby and pumps milk ahead of time when she won't be around. But some women can't produce enough milk or have lives that are too busy, but still want their child to receive the benefits of mother's milk. Anecdata tells me that women who are stressed out won't produce much milk, so... I assume that's a significant number of people right there. EDIT: Changed phrasing per reply
- indians_pro 12y ago
  >overflowing fountain please- ahem avoid using phrases like that- EDIT : For god's sake people, it was a JOKE
rayiner 12y ago
We outsource almost everything women would, in earlier times, have had to stay home and do (cleaning, childcare, laundry, drycleaning, grocery shopping), so why not milk production as well? I know the process of feeding your infant is very fulfilling, but I've never heard anyone who liked the actual lactating part, which is pretty miserable.
- smokey_the_bear 12y ago
  Pumping isn't great, but actually nursing a baby can be wonderful. It releases hormones, and is generally very relaxing for me if my baby is calm.
  - tomjen3 12y ago
    I imagine there is an evolutionary reason for that - but at the same time (if you don't mind me asking) how often is the baby calm?
    - smokey_the_bear 12y ago
      Both of mine have generally been calm. Nursing changes a lot as they get older, mine usually weren't interested in nursing when they've just eaten a lot of solids, or if there are distractions around, and being overtired is a whole other beast. I'd say now with my second baby, at 11 months, 90% of the bedtime and morning nursings are pleasant bonding experiences, and half of the daytime ones.
- EliRivers 12y ago
  Milk production has been outsourced for a very long time [1]. We just now have the technology to move it reliably from supplier to anonymous recipient rather than having to have instantaneous transfer, and social attitudes in the US have swung back in favour of human milk rather than substitutes. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_nurse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_nurse
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
swatow 12y ago
No, if you read the article, you'll see it is absolutely nothing to do with maternity leave. The article describes a market where companies pay women for breast milk that is left over after they have fed their own babies, and use it to produce a pharmaceutical product for premature babies. The controversy is between non-profits and for profit companies both doing this (but the non-profit doesn't pay the women).
DominikR 12y ago
While I agree that maternity leave laws are quite problematic for many women in the US it should also be mentioned that not every mother is able to breast feed their child. It's actually not that uncommon and in most cases these women are otherwise perfectly healthy and really want to breast feed. Many non-physiological factors play a role here. For example how much pressure does the mother feel or put on herself. (typically with the first child because it's a new experience) How much stress does she have and so on.
- slowmovintarget 12y ago
  There are also factors where the baby is unable to develop proper latching and sucking technique. My daughter had a tongue-tie, which, while corrected on her second day out, left her with the wrong muscle impulses for nursing. We had to bottle feed her, and eventually the pumping wasn't enough to continue the supply, or allow the supply to fully "come in".
prostoalex 12y ago
The fact that women choose to have children at a later age can probably be traced to maternity leave laws (although it seems to be the trend in any developed career-oriented society, not just US). Later age is correlated with lower milk production, kicking up the demand http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/27/us-milk-production-idUSTRE66Q4YV20100727 http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/27/us-milk-production...

Iftheshoefits 12y ago

There are a lot of women who would prefer to breastfeed but can't for a variety of physiological reasons, so this market would at least have the potential to exist even if America's maternity leave laws weren't barbaric.

rustynails 12y ago
Can I ask why there is a need to exaggerate creeping into hacker news, particularly where it involves gender topics? Barbaric literally means: Savage, primitive, brutish. You don't help a cause with such inappropriate language. I switch off if people can't use non-political language and I'm a dad with young kids so the topic is relevant to my family.
- hf 12y ago
  The word seems entirely appropriate. As a European, I have not been able to convince family members or friends that aren't intimately acquainted with the US-American situation that there is no universal, legislative framework for paid or unpaid maternity leave. They usually respond with a variation of "this can't be right; you must be misinformed; it would be horrible if that were the case." And you (as a populace) aren't even fighting for it! Not visibly, at least. So, honestly, you seem to be the one hurting all sorts of causes with this misdirected attitude of apologism.
  - todd_whitehead 12y ago
    Why should someone be paid for adding nothing of value to a company (by being on maternity leave)?
    - littletimmy 12y ago
      Same reason someone should be taxed to fund the police even if said person can afford a private security guard. Social good.
      - 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

shubb 12y ago
Wow, I'm really not sure how to judge your friend ethically... Providing a source of breast milk is really important. Providing a source of income for people who are poor enough that getting milked for $2 a day sounds good is important. But this is pretty clear exploitation. I think in poorer countries, living costs and incomes in urban areas are lower than in richer countries but not vastly so. However, out in the countryside, especially in areas where the farming is mostly subsistence, currency is hard to come by. When everything is okay, that isn't so important because people can get locally produced food and shelter, but when someone needs medical treatment or just imported building materials it is. However, the people in those areas are not very mobile. There may be a minibus network or similar, but getting to a major urban centre is a big deal, costs a significant amount. You could set up a deal NGO clinics where those exist. I don't know much about Cambodia though personally... But yeah, I don't know if he's doing a good thing or a terrible thing.
- ionwake 12y ago
  What was the comment?
  - shubb 12y ago
    Something pretty nutty honestly. I wondered if it was a parody.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

sii 12y ago

This is interesting. For comparison, in Sweden you donate (sell) milk directly to hospitals where it is handled locally and given to prematurely born children in the hospital. The prices are set locally by each hospital but is currently at around $20-30 usd / liter, and has been raised a number of times over the last 10 years to encourage more people to donate milk. Hospitals buy milk from each other when necessary for somewhere around $100 per liter. Donated milk is usually only accepted for the first three months after the donating mothers child was born. All equipment (pumps, bottles etc.) are provided by the hospital. That said, I would encourage as many people as possible to donate milk, it makes a huge difference for those tiny prematurely born babies.

beagle3 12y ago

I've heard stories of ultra-expensive breastmilk that is mixed from many donors - it supposedly gives the newborn antibodies from all those moms (expressed in the breastmilk - that's where babies get their antibodies until their own immune systems kick in). Does anyone have more info? There's a similar concept for general antibody donation, which is given to the immune compromised, called intravenous immuno-globulin (IVIG)[0], which is extremely effective at modulating the immune system and enhancing immunity. Basically, they take blood donations, purify only (some) antibodies, and mix some 10,000 donors so that the resulting donation is well-rounded in its contents. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intravenous_immunoglobulin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intravenous_immunoglobulin