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This is unbelievable. As in, I literally can't believe it. There's no way they've come up with a full-resolution, head-mounted, transparent, additive and multip

by hughes 12y ago

This is unbelievable. As in, I literally can't believe it. There's no way they've come up with a full-resolution, head-mounted, transparent, additive and multiplicative display attached to a computer vision system capable of identifying light sources and nearby geometry that also has 100% perfect hand tracking with haptic feedback. I also don't believe anyone would make such bizarre, quasi-pornographic grunting noises while wearing such a device and "playing" at the office.

nknighthb 12y ago
I must have missed the perfect hand tracking. Could you share where it was? All I saw was rather exaggerated movements to make things work.
- felixvolny 12y ago
  This requires perfect hand tracking: https://i.imgur.com/QzSD0bq.png https://i.imgur.com/QzSD0bq.png
  - teraflop 12y ago
    I think the gun is a real, physical object -- I mean, it even casts shadows on the user's arm. It's probably just the enemies, HUD and glowy, flashy special effects that are rendered in VR, and those should be more forgiving of slight positional inaccuracies.
    - duffmancd 12y ago
      Especially as it comes from Weta workshop who originally designed the weapon (https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Righteous_Bison https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Righteous_Bison) - if anyone has a physical copy it's them
      - mwilcox 12y ago
        WETA have been selling physical replicas of these weapons for years: https://www.wetanz.com/rayguns/ https://www.wetanz.com/rayguns/
- m_eiman 12y ago
  Grabbing and handling the gun.
  - nknighthb 12y ago
    The gun is a physical object.
- teraflop 12y ago
  The interface widgets appear to be occluded by the user's hand, with no visible artifacts even when the hand is moving quickly. That means the system has to be tracking the hand and somehow separating it from the background, with latency of much less than a single frame. EDIT: here's a particularly blatant example, around 0:17: http://i.imgur.com/8mSv8oC.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8mSv8oC.jpg The user is swiping from right to left, causing their hand to be highly motion-blurred. But the rendered UI elements smoothly fade in behind the hand. There are foreground segmentation algorithms that can do this kind of thing, assuming you have some information about which regions of the image are foreground/background (say, from a depth sensor). But those algorithms typically take on the order of seconds or minutes to process a single frame. For this video to be real, the total latency -- sensing, matte generation, and rendering -- would have to be in the single-digit milliseconds. It's barely on the edge of plausibility, but I'm very very skeptical.
  - nknighthb 12y ago
    OK, that's right. I'm still not convinced anyone can say that this must be faked. None of this is impossible with current tech, just not likely in a wearable/battery-powered device. Edit: Actually, no, I don't think it's right. Modern chroma keying could probably handle this.
  - MichaelGG 12y ago
    If you had head mounted cameras, they could feed depth info to layer the UI, as you say. And if the display is covering your eyes completely, then feeding video in...? We don't get to see what the guy looks like, just what he's seeing. Maybe he's got 15lbs of Heath Robinson equipment on his head.
Rapzid 12y ago
The devil is always in the details; or lack of attention to. Just slow it down on youtube to 0.25. If it wasn't clear before, the animations preceding the hand gestures will make it perfectly obvious this is a mock. Whoever they contracted the shots out to did not do a very thorough job of it.
MichaelGG 12y ago
Perhaps it's a head mounted display and all that geometry, the desks and walls and stuff on the desks, is built into the game level. If they really have a holographic display that's super thin, it seems like the rest could be hacked around. As far as the grunting, how is it any different than having a Nerf gunfight or pingpong or whatever people are into at the office?
frik 12y ago
It's a concept video done by a special effects company well known for The Lord of the Rings and Avatar. The YT description "This is a game we’re playing around the office right now" is a bit provocative and without a real demonstration it's just PR. Video on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPMHcanq0xM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPMHcanq0xM Company: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weta_Workshop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weta_Workshop , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weta_Digital http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weta_Digital It's called augmented reality and more basic implementations are already possible for some time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augmented_reality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augmented_reality @Downvoter: what's wrong?
- teraflop 12y ago
  I didn't downvote you, but I suspect it's because this whole comment thread is about trying to determine whether or not the video is real footage of Magic Leap's tech. Asserting that it is or it isn't, without something to back up that assertion, isn't all that helpful. Nowhere in the video description does it say that it's just a concept.
  - frik 12y ago
    > without something to back up that assertion, isn't all that helpful The video credits list Weta prominently - that's alone is a significant signal. The guns are props from Weta too: https://www.wetanz.com/rayguns/ https://www.wetanz.com/rayguns/ CEO Rony Abovitz, who was supposed to go onstage at the TED conference in Vancouver on Wednesday, has canceled his talk. Why would a CEO cancel such a high profile talk and release that video afterwards? More info: http://recode.net/2015/03/16/magic-leap-googles-high-profile-3-d-tech-bet-just-cancelled-its-high-profile-appearances-why/ http://recode.net/2015/03/16/magic-leap-googles-high-profile... , http://recode.net/2015/03/19/the-first-video-of-magic-leaps-technology-looks-fake/ http://recode.net/2015/03/19/the-first-video-of-magic-leaps-... . I tested two state of the art augmented reality glasses (university research prototypes) last year. The glass was connected (via cable) to a workstation PC with several high end NVidia graphic cards. One also used Xbox Kinect to track the environment and the arms. Everything shown in the video is already possible, but not with that perfect visual quality and without any latency.
kabouseng 12y ago
There is a markedly difference in resolution between the real world and the AR stuff. Especially when the actor scrolls through his mail, his hand is a very low resolution and the mails are a very high resolution. I suspect this is a major signal of it being fake.

by hughes 12y ago

nknighthb 12y ago

I must have missed the perfect hand tracking. Could you share where it was? All I saw was rather exaggerated movements to make things work.

felixvolny 12y ago
This requires perfect hand tracking: https://i.imgur.com/QzSD0bq.png https://i.imgur.com/QzSD0bq.png
- teraflop 12y ago
  I think the gun is a real, physical object -- I mean, it even casts shadows on the user's arm. It's probably just the enemies, HUD and glowy, flashy special effects that are rendered in VR, and those should be more forgiving of slight positional inaccuracies.
  - duffmancd 12y ago
    Especially as it comes from Weta workshop who originally designed the weapon (https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Righteous_Bison https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Righteous_Bison) - if anyone has a physical copy it's them
    - mwilcox 12y ago
      WETA have been selling physical replicas of these weapons for years: https://www.wetanz.com/rayguns/ https://www.wetanz.com/rayguns/
m_eiman 12y ago
Grabbing and handling the gun.
- nknighthb 12y ago
  The gun is a physical object.
teraflop 12y ago
The interface widgets appear to be occluded by the user's hand, with no visible artifacts even when the hand is moving quickly. That means the system has to be tracking the hand and somehow separating it from the background, with latency of much less than a single frame. EDIT: here's a particularly blatant example, around 0:17: http://i.imgur.com/8mSv8oC.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8mSv8oC.jpg The user is swiping from right to left, causing their hand to be highly motion-blurred. But the rendered UI elements smoothly fade in behind the hand. There are foreground segmentation algorithms that can do this kind of thing, assuming you have some information about which regions of the image are foreground/background (say, from a depth sensor). But those algorithms typically take on the order of seconds or minutes to process a single frame. For this video to be real, the total latency -- sensing, matte generation, and rendering -- would have to be in the single-digit milliseconds. It's barely on the edge of plausibility, but I'm very very skeptical.
- nknighthb 12y ago
  OK, that's right. I'm still not convinced anyone can say that this must be faked. None of this is impossible with current tech, just not likely in a wearable/battery-powered device. Edit: Actually, no, I don't think it's right. Modern chroma keying could probably handle this.
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  If you had head mounted cameras, they could feed depth info to layer the UI, as you say. And if the display is covering your eyes completely, then feeding video in...? We don't get to see what the guy looks like, just what he's seeing. Maybe he's got 15lbs of Heath Robinson equipment on his head.

Rapzid 12y ago

The devil is always in the details; or lack of attention to. Just slow it down on youtube to 0.25. If it wasn't clear before, the animations preceding the hand gestures will make it perfectly obvious this is a mock. Whoever they contracted the shots out to did not do a very thorough job of it.

MichaelGG 12y ago

Perhaps it's a head mounted display and all that geometry, the desks and walls and stuff on the desks, is built into the game level. If they really have a holographic display that's super thin, it seems like the rest could be hacked around. As far as the grunting, how is it any different than having a Nerf gunfight or pingpong or whatever people are into at the office?

frik 12y ago

It's a concept video done by a special effects company well known for The Lord of the Rings and Avatar. The YT description "This is a game we’re playing around the office right now" is a bit provocative and without a real demonstration it's just PR. Video on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPMHcanq0xM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPMHcanq0xM Company: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weta_Workshop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weta_Workshop , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weta_Digital http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weta_Digital It's called augmented reality and more basic implementations are already possible for some time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augmented_reality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augmented_reality @Downvoter: what's wrong?

teraflop 12y ago
I didn't downvote you, but I suspect it's because this whole comment thread is about trying to determine whether or not the video is real footage of Magic Leap's tech. Asserting that it is or it isn't, without something to back up that assertion, isn't all that helpful. Nowhere in the video description does it say that it's just a concept.
- frik 12y ago
  > without something to back up that assertion, isn't all that helpful The video credits list Weta prominently - that's alone is a significant signal. The guns are props from Weta too: https://www.wetanz.com/rayguns/ https://www.wetanz.com/rayguns/ CEO Rony Abovitz, who was supposed to go onstage at the TED conference in Vancouver on Wednesday, has canceled his talk. Why would a CEO cancel such a high profile talk and release that video afterwards? More info: http://recode.net/2015/03/16/magic-leap-googles-high-profile-3-d-tech-bet-just-cancelled-its-high-profile-appearances-why/ http://recode.net/2015/03/16/magic-leap-googles-high-profile... , http://recode.net/2015/03/19/the-first-video-of-magic-leaps-technology-looks-fake/ http://recode.net/2015/03/19/the-first-video-of-magic-leaps-... . I tested two state of the art augmented reality glasses (university research prototypes) last year. The glass was connected (via cable) to a workstation PC with several high end NVidia graphic cards. One also used Xbox Kinect to track the environment and the arms. Everything shown in the video is already possible, but not with that perfect visual quality and without any latency.

kabouseng 12y ago

There is a markedly difference in resolution between the real world and the AR stuff. Especially when the actor scrolls through his mail, his hand is a very low resolution and the mails are a very high resolution. I suspect this is a major signal of it being fake.