5 ms·

A demo that Magic Leap was going to show at TED

39 points by mmastrac 12y ago

ykl 12y ago
Wait, I'm confused. Is that video the actual game and how everything actually looks, or is it a concept video with visual effects and props and whatnot by Weta? Because up until now, I was under the impression that it was the latter.
- mtinkerhess 12y ago
  If that footage is in-engine I'll eat my hat.
  - cheald 12y ago
    From their official YouTube account: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPMHcanq0xM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPMHcanq0xM "This is a game we’re playing around the office right now" is extremely provocative. Edit: ah, you removed your request for citation. Doh. :)
    - mtinkerhess 12y ago
      Sorry for mixing things up with a ninja edit! The article says: > This is the video of a real-world, first-person shooting game that Magic Leap says it was going to show at TED this week. At first I parsed that as saying Magic Leap was going to show the game at TED, but what I've seen other articles say is that they were going to show this video at TED. There is no way this is in-engine AR. This has to be a concept video for a prototype they're working on. For them to say they're playing this around the office isn't exactly a lie -- they may very well be working on a prototype that has similar mechanics -- but it's bending the truth.
      - nknighthb 12y ago
        I'm not clear what's so surprising to you. AR has been progressing rapidly. This looks like the next iteration. It's not some giant leap from what we've seen before, or even what's in millions of consumers' hands right now.
        slight 12y ago
        No it's really not. This is a long way from anything that's been shown so far and is clearly a mock-up. The devil is in the detail, the production value is too high and the visual integration between the CGI and real elements is too slick.
- rawnlq 12y ago
  http://13thlab.com http://13thlab.com who got acquired by Oculus made something very very similar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA2NI4NgsV0&t=19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA2NI4NgsV0&t=19 so the technology for doing this is feasible and real. Their previous kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1203948132/rescape-fps-games-on-mobile-should-be-more-not-les https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1203948132/rescape-fps-...
  - mtinkerhess 12y ago
    That's a cool-looking video. It looks like it isn't AR though -- it looks like they're taking the real-world position of the phones and using that to drive the positions of the players in the game. They've modeled the game so the level looks the same as the office they're playing it in.
- choppaface 12y ago
  Magic Leap PR has not yet confirmed if the video is an authentic demo of the product ( http://recode.net/2015/03/19/the-first-video-of-magic-leaps-technology-looks-fake/ http://recode.net/2015/03/19/the-first-video-of-magic-leaps-... ). One hypothesis is that PR commissioned the video and planned to show it at TED and other venues. IMO the video definitely looks produced and it was prudent to cancel the talks rather than spin the video as a plausible demo of their product. Re/code's comparison to Google's hype of Glass is a little harsh, but nevertheless if the video is indeed "fake" this would be yet another example of Marketing being completely reckless with consumer expectations. I'm sure the Magic Leap product has some impressive strengths. Better to let the product speak than to let Marketing try to "lift" something different that doesn't exist.
  - chralieboy 12y ago
    Re-watching the glass video, compared what was actually launched, their criticism seems fair in retrospect. It is also a great comparison on another level. This product may be amazing, but whatever it takes to make it happen is so unwieldy that no one would want to use it. Glass didn't fail only on the product experience, but on the social stigma aspects as well. Odd gruntings aside, until we actually see the product it is hard to say it will sell. A good example of this is Apple. Presentation is equally important as the actual tech (hence these unrealistic marketing videos.)
Tarang 12y ago
I'm not sure this is the actual thing. If you check out the video at near 0:10 you have emails which are fictitious, like an email from brands.edu (no whois record). For the company to say they're playing this at the moment in office it is a bit misleading. I hope the real thing will be just as cool if not cooler.
- teraflop 12y ago
  I'm skeptical about the technology, but the email domains have nothing to do with it. They could easily create a demo with real AR hardware and fake data, or with fake visual effects and real data. The software is pretty clearly a mockup, but nobody cares because the 3D interface design isn't all that interesting. It's the hardware that's claimed to be revolutionary.
hughes 12y ago
This is unbelievable. As in, I literally can't believe it. There's no way they've come up with a full-resolution, head-mounted, transparent, additive and multiplicative display attached to a computer vision system capable of identifying light sources and nearby geometry that also has 100% perfect hand tracking with haptic feedback. I also don't believe anyone would make such bizarre, quasi-pornographic grunting noises while wearing such a device and "playing" at the office.
- nknighthb 12y ago
  I must have missed the perfect hand tracking. Could you share where it was? All I saw was rather exaggerated movements to make things work.
  - felixvolny 12y ago
    This requires perfect hand tracking: https://i.imgur.com/QzSD0bq.png https://i.imgur.com/QzSD0bq.png
    - teraflop 12y ago
      I think the gun is a real, physical object -- I mean, it even casts shadows on the user's arm. It's probably just the enemies, HUD and glowy, flashy special effects that are rendered in VR, and those should be more forgiving of slight positional inaccuracies.
      - duffmancd 12y ago
        Especially as it comes from Weta workshop who originally designed the weapon (https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Righteous_Bison https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Righteous_Bison) - if anyone has a physical copy it's them
        mwilcox 12y ago
        WETA have been selling physical replicas of these weapons for years: https://www.wetanz.com/rayguns/ https://www.wetanz.com/rayguns/
k3liutZu 12y ago
They need some UI & UX designers badly.
cromwellian 12y ago
The fact that the guns have recoil seem to suggest it's a concept video.
empy 12y ago
Reality Check: Comparing HoloLens and Magic Leap: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/535806/reality-check-comparing-hololens-and-magic-leap/ http://www.technologyreview.com/news/535806/reality-check-co...
hobo_mark 12y ago
Although I used to enjoy quake2 when I was young, I don't feel the appeal of shooting games anymore, or videogames in general. That is to say, I have been on both sides of the fence and I still vividly remember the sweaty excitement of a deathmatch. Now, my first impression to this and to other AR (and VR) demos is, "Isn't this literally a new Columbine waiting to happen?". (NOTE: I do not mean the incident, those seem to happen regardless, I mean the public outcry and witch-hunting). Has public perception of interactive violence shifted to a point where "it's not different from an action movie after all", even at this new point of immersive realism?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- pgodzin 12y ago
  I think anyone who has issues distinguishing between virtual reality and the real world will have issues regardless of whether or not they play these types of games. I don't think there is any study out there showing that violent video games make people any more violent.
  - hobo_mark 12y ago
    And I agree with you! Edit to make the point clearer.
Lorin 12y ago
It's odd that Engadget trumped this. I'll re-hash my comment from the article: Those weapons are physical props from the Weta workshop collection (starting at the low low price of ~$500, up to about $7000 @ https://www.wetanz.com/rayguns/ https://www.wetanz.com/rayguns/). They also used SFX from Team Fortress 2 when they put down the turret. For the video they either: a) Created a magical bio-feedback system to artificially create gun recoil for the person holding the weapon as well as tactile feedback for "in the air" functions. or most likely: b) Created a Post-processed CGI demo meant to impress execs that have no concept of what's currently possible - Might as well hire CorridorDigital and make something like this instead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhCQeFX9GSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhCQeFX9GSg
kayoone 12y ago
can't believe anyone thinks this is real. It might resemble where they want to go with the product but this video is composited, that's blatantly obvious. I hope they can deliver on this vision. cough google glass cough
- mik3y 12y ago
  Yes. Let's not forget this is the same company whose patent draft diagrams were found to be basically wholly ripped-off copies of other public works. [1] I'm impressed with the thoroughness of HNers screenshotting and looking at motion blur, but nothing I've seen says we should give this company the benefit of doubt. This reeks of "concept video" all around. [1] http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/30/7954611/magic-leap-augmented-reality-patent-art-copied-designers http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/30/7954611/magic-leap-augment...
mbleigh 12y ago
I don't even understand the purpose of a video like this. The only thing it tells me is what Magic Leap hopes their tech will some day achieve. Blatantly conceptual and given that it's being released in lieu of in-person presentations, one can only assume that they didn't want to have to publicly explain it.
keerthiko 12y ago
Of all the skepticism, the two most reasonable ones are - quality of the headmounted transparent display. This doesn't even seem to be Magic Leap's core competency and the tech required for a HMD to reach this level of quality is far beyond anything we've seen before. - real-time computation power on a battery powered wearable. It would run incredibly hot and drain so much power unless the guy was wearing a giant battery/CPU backpack covered in exhaust fans. For the other things, 1. The room geometry could have been prescanned and coded in 2. hand-tracking could have used an additional wearable sensor on the hand 3. the AR systems could have been optimized for recognizing the gun (I have worked with systems capable of that) for highly accurate and fast real-time tracking of a non-malleable object 4. and the interactive 3D graphics given knowledge of the room (surface geometry and lighting) is not a big deal at all. The acting (such as recoil on the gun) is a bit overdone and obviously has nothing to do with the technology itself, and I find it weird that the AR actually seems to assume you'd recoil that much and animates the shots as such.
- JeffKang2 12y ago
  > The room geometry could have been prescanned and coded There's an Oculus Rift forum post that has a link to hand tracking with the Structure Sensor. The depth sensing portable Structure Sensor is 95 grams and $380 (Kickstarter). There's noticeable latency in the hand tracking, but a post talks about possible low latency for static objects by using a previous map. Assuming you stay within a certain space, would premapping with something like the Structure Sensor or Project Tango contribute the most to the stability of virtual objects that Hololens testers experienced? (objects stick to their intended position as you move): >Daily Tech News Show DTNS 2414 - Jan. 23, 2015 that objects stayed stable when you move your head 17:43 well hold on a sec it is excellent 17:47 at keeping orientation for sure I looked around and something with an absurd and 17:51 Spa 17:52 I looked around the same thing was there again I if they're mob rock on the 17:55 surface of mars 17:56 or a table covered with you know i i 17:59 toy castle at minecraft made all these tiny little minecraft building blocks 18:03 it would always be exactly where I thought it would be but I had to turn my 18:07 head all over the place cuz the field if the US 18:10 tiny it's like this little I somebody's described it as a sixteen by nine TP 18:15 floating maybe seven to eight feet and Franny 18:18 you're looking through this little narrow slice ever went out about this 18:22 big around in my view 18:24 trying to see mars this much at a time 18:27 and wherever you look is like oh that's exactly where I thought it would be 18:30 but its tunnel vision it's like you're looking through a pair of binoculars or watch?v=uGYksMRmUwA --- >Through it all, the 3D effect was thoroughly convincing. >The system felt very low latency; as I moved my head and walked around, the objects retained their positioning in the real world, with the castle, for example, never becoming detached from or wobbling around on the table. arstechnica --- Or is good real-time tracking necessary for the virtual objects to stay attached to their positions. (> If you can figure out these numbers for your system, the addition of 38 ms from the Structure Sensor will give you and idea of the total latency in your system. kickstarter > 20 ms minimum latency (AKA lag, compared to 102 ms minimum latency for Kinect 1 and 50 ms minimum latency for joypads in 60 fps games.) 123kinect)

39 points by mmastrac 12y ago

ykl 12y ago

Wait, I'm confused. Is that video the actual game and how everything actually looks, or is it a concept video with visual effects and props and whatnot by Weta? Because up until now, I was under the impression that it was the latter.

mtinkerhess 12y ago
If that footage is in-engine I'll eat my hat.
- cheald 12y ago
  From their official YouTube account: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPMHcanq0xM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPMHcanq0xM "This is a game we’re playing around the office right now" is extremely provocative. Edit: ah, you removed your request for citation. Doh. :)
  - mtinkerhess 12y ago
    Sorry for mixing things up with a ninja edit! The article says: > This is the video of a real-world, first-person shooting game that Magic Leap says it was going to show at TED this week. At first I parsed that as saying Magic Leap was going to show the game at TED, but what I've seen other articles say is that they were going to show this video at TED. There is no way this is in-engine AR. This has to be a concept video for a prototype they're working on. For them to say they're playing this around the office isn't exactly a lie -- they may very well be working on a prototype that has similar mechanics -- but it's bending the truth.
    - nknighthb 12y ago
      I'm not clear what's so surprising to you. AR has been progressing rapidly. This looks like the next iteration. It's not some giant leap from what we've seen before, or even what's in millions of consumers' hands right now.
      - slight 12y ago
        No it's really not. This is a long way from anything that's been shown so far and is clearly a mock-up. The devil is in the detail, the production value is too high and the visual integration between the CGI and real elements is too slick.
rawnlq 12y ago
http://13thlab.com http://13thlab.com who got acquired by Oculus made something very very similar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA2NI4NgsV0&t=19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA2NI4NgsV0&t=19 so the technology for doing this is feasible and real. Their previous kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1203948132/rescape-fps-games-on-mobile-should-be-more-not-les https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1203948132/rescape-fps-...
- mtinkerhess 12y ago
  That's a cool-looking video. It looks like it isn't AR though -- it looks like they're taking the real-world position of the phones and using that to drive the positions of the players in the game. They've modeled the game so the level looks the same as the office they're playing it in.
choppaface 12y ago
Magic Leap PR has not yet confirmed if the video is an authentic demo of the product ( http://recode.net/2015/03/19/the-first-video-of-magic-leaps-technology-looks-fake/ http://recode.net/2015/03/19/the-first-video-of-magic-leaps-... ). One hypothesis is that PR commissioned the video and planned to show it at TED and other venues. IMO the video definitely looks produced and it was prudent to cancel the talks rather than spin the video as a plausible demo of their product. Re/code's comparison to Google's hype of Glass is a little harsh, but nevertheless if the video is indeed "fake" this would be yet another example of Marketing being completely reckless with consumer expectations. I'm sure the Magic Leap product has some impressive strengths. Better to let the product speak than to let Marketing try to "lift" something different that doesn't exist.
- chralieboy 12y ago
  Re-watching the glass video, compared what was actually launched, their criticism seems fair in retrospect. It is also a great comparison on another level. This product may be amazing, but whatever it takes to make it happen is so unwieldy that no one would want to use it. Glass didn't fail only on the product experience, but on the social stigma aspects as well. Odd gruntings aside, until we actually see the product it is hard to say it will sell. A good example of this is Apple. Presentation is equally important as the actual tech (hence these unrealistic marketing videos.)

Tarang 12y ago

I'm not sure this is the actual thing. If you check out the video at near 0:10 you have emails which are fictitious, like an email from brands.edu (no whois record). For the company to say they're playing this at the moment in office it is a bit misleading. I hope the real thing will be just as cool if not cooler.

teraflop 12y ago
I'm skeptical about the technology, but the email domains have nothing to do with it. They could easily create a demo with real AR hardware and fake data, or with fake visual effects and real data. The software is pretty clearly a mockup, but nobody cares because the 3D interface design isn't all that interesting. It's the hardware that's claimed to be revolutionary.

hughes 12y ago

This is unbelievable. As in, I literally can't believe it. There's no way they've come up with a full-resolution, head-mounted, transparent, additive and multiplicative display attached to a computer vision system capable of identifying light sources and nearby geometry that also has 100% perfect hand tracking with haptic feedback. I also don't believe anyone would make such bizarre, quasi-pornographic grunting noises while wearing such a device and "playing" at the office.

nknighthb 12y ago
I must have missed the perfect hand tracking. Could you share where it was? All I saw was rather exaggerated movements to make things work.
- felixvolny 12y ago
  This requires perfect hand tracking: https://i.imgur.com/QzSD0bq.png https://i.imgur.com/QzSD0bq.png
  - teraflop 12y ago
    I think the gun is a real, physical object -- I mean, it even casts shadows on the user's arm. It's probably just the enemies, HUD and glowy, flashy special effects that are rendered in VR, and those should be more forgiving of slight positional inaccuracies.
    - duffmancd 12y ago
      Especially as it comes from Weta workshop who originally designed the weapon (https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Righteous_Bison https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Righteous_Bison) - if anyone has a physical copy it's them
      - mwilcox 12y ago
        WETA have been selling physical replicas of these weapons for years: https://www.wetanz.com/rayguns/ https://www.wetanz.com/rayguns/

k3liutZu 12y ago

They need some UI & UX designers badly.

cromwellian 12y ago

The fact that the guns have recoil seem to suggest it's a concept video.

empy 12y ago

Reality Check: Comparing HoloLens and Magic Leap: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/535806/reality-check-comparing-hololens-and-magic-leap/ http://www.technologyreview.com/news/535806/reality-check-co...

hobo_mark 12y ago

Although I used to enjoy quake2 when I was young, I don't feel the appeal of shooting games anymore, or videogames in general. That is to say, I have been on both sides of the fence and I still vividly remember the sweaty excitement of a deathmatch. Now, my first impression to this and to other AR (and VR) demos is, "Isn't this literally a new Columbine waiting to happen?". (NOTE: I do not mean the incident, those seem to happen regardless, I mean the public outcry and witch-hunting). Has public perception of interactive violence shifted to a point where "it's not different from an action movie after all", even at this new point of immersive realism?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
pgodzin 12y ago
I think anyone who has issues distinguishing between virtual reality and the real world will have issues regardless of whether or not they play these types of games. I don't think there is any study out there showing that violent video games make people any more violent.
- hobo_mark 12y ago
  And I agree with you! Edit to make the point clearer.

Lorin 12y ago

It's odd that Engadget trumped this. I'll re-hash my comment from the article: Those weapons are physical props from the Weta workshop collection (starting at the low low price of ~$500, up to about $7000 @ https://www.wetanz.com/rayguns/ https://www.wetanz.com/rayguns/). They also used SFX from Team Fortress 2 when they put down the turret. For the video they either: a) Created a magical bio-feedback system to artificially create gun recoil for the person holding the weapon as well as tactile feedback for "in the air" functions. or most likely: b) Created a Post-processed CGI demo meant to impress execs that have no concept of what's currently possible - Might as well hire CorridorDigital and make something like this instead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhCQeFX9GSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhCQeFX9GSg

kayoone 12y ago

can't believe anyone thinks this is real. It might resemble where they want to go with the product but this video is composited, that's blatantly obvious. I hope they can deliver on this vision. cough google glass cough

mik3y 12y ago
Yes. Let's not forget this is the same company whose patent draft diagrams were found to be basically wholly ripped-off copies of other public works. [1] I'm impressed with the thoroughness of HNers screenshotting and looking at motion blur, but nothing I've seen says we should give this company the benefit of doubt. This reeks of "concept video" all around. [1] http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/30/7954611/magic-leap-augmented-reality-patent-art-copied-designers http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/30/7954611/magic-leap-augment...

mbleigh 12y ago

I don't even understand the purpose of a video like this. The only thing it tells me is what Magic Leap hopes their tech will some day achieve. Blatantly conceptual and given that it's being released in lieu of in-person presentations, one can only assume that they didn't want to have to publicly explain it.

keerthiko 12y ago

Of all the skepticism, the two most reasonable ones are - quality of the headmounted transparent display. This doesn't even seem to be Magic Leap's core competency and the tech required for a HMD to reach this level of quality is far beyond anything we've seen before. - real-time computation power on a battery powered wearable. It would run incredibly hot and drain so much power unless the guy was wearing a giant battery/CPU backpack covered in exhaust fans. For the other things, 1. The room geometry could have been prescanned and coded in 2. hand-tracking could have used an additional wearable sensor on the hand 3. the AR systems could have been optimized for recognizing the gun (I have worked with systems capable of that) for highly accurate and fast real-time tracking of a non-malleable object 4. and the interactive 3D graphics given knowledge of the room (surface geometry and lighting) is not a big deal at all. The acting (such as recoil on the gun) is a bit overdone and obviously has nothing to do with the technology itself, and I find it weird that the AR actually seems to assume you'd recoil that much and animates the shots as such.

JeffKang2 12y ago
> The room geometry could have been prescanned and coded There's an Oculus Rift forum post that has a link to hand tracking with the Structure Sensor. The depth sensing portable Structure Sensor is 95 grams and $380 (Kickstarter). There's noticeable latency in the hand tracking, but a post talks about possible low latency for static objects by using a previous map. Assuming you stay within a certain space, would premapping with something like the Structure Sensor or Project Tango contribute the most to the stability of virtual objects that Hololens testers experienced? (objects stick to their intended position as you move): >Daily Tech News Show DTNS 2414 - Jan. 23, 2015 that objects stayed stable when you move your head 17:43 well hold on a sec it is excellent 17:47 at keeping orientation for sure I looked around and something with an absurd and 17:51 Spa 17:52 I looked around the same thing was there again I if they're mob rock on the 17:55 surface of mars 17:56 or a table covered with you know i i 17:59 toy castle at minecraft made all these tiny little minecraft building blocks 18:03 it would always be exactly where I thought it would be but I had to turn my 18:07 head all over the place cuz the field if the US 18:10 tiny it's like this little I somebody's described it as a sixteen by nine TP 18:15 floating maybe seven to eight feet and Franny 18:18 you're looking through this little narrow slice ever went out about this 18:22 big around in my view 18:24 trying to see mars this much at a time 18:27 and wherever you look is like oh that's exactly where I thought it would be 18:30 but its tunnel vision it's like you're looking through a pair of binoculars or watch?v=uGYksMRmUwA --- >Through it all, the 3D effect was thoroughly convincing. >The system felt very low latency; as I moved my head and walked around, the objects retained their positioning in the real world, with the castle, for example, never becoming detached from or wobbling around on the table. arstechnica --- Or is good real-time tracking necessary for the virtual objects to stay attached to their positions. (> If you can figure out these numbers for your system, the addition of 38 ms from the Structure Sensor will give you and idea of the total latency in your system. kickstarter > 20 ms minimum latency (AKA lag, compared to 102 ms minimum latency for Kinect 1 and 50 ms minimum latency for joypads in 60 fps games.) 123kinect)