9 ms·

Development of Doom

74 points by michaelpinto 12y ago

michaelpinto 12y ago
What's amazing to me is that both Doom and the first web server were created on NeXT workstations. It's also interesting to see that while everyone a few years ago was rushing to learn Objective-C that Carmack was coding with it in 1992. Looking back on it maybe Steve Job's "lost years" were in fact his most productive (especially given that Pixar made Toy Story during this era).
- nextos 12y ago
  Indeed. Oversimplifying a bit, modern Apple is largely NeXT stuff running on more affordable hardware. NeXT was very forward thinking, so this is far from a criticism to Apple. This is a pattern I've spotted quite often, interesting ideas brilliant people have but that can only be executed many years later, when technology catches up.
JeremyMorgan 12y ago
The tools were developed in ObjC, but the game engine itself was coded in C.
- melling 12y ago
  The source is on GitHub: https://github.com/id-Software/DOOM https://github.com/id-Software/DOOM
  - benkant 12y ago
    > https://github.com/id-Software/DOOM/blob/master/linuxdoom-1.10/g_game.c#L456 https://github.com/id-Software/DOOM/blob/master/linuxdoom-1.... One thing that's clear when reading game source code is that they hard code a lot more than I would writing system or application software. That's to be expected given the nature of the beast, but it's still one of the first obvious differences.
    - treve 12y ago
      And this also perfectly explains why computers don't feel exponentially faster than 20 years ago. We're always taught to add abstractions all the time.
javery 12y ago
I highly recommend the book Masters of Doom. Great writing and such a great story.
- prezjordan 12y ago
  I wish I could go back and read that book for the first time again.
- benkant 12y ago
  It's on Audible as well, narrated by Wil Wheaton. I've been doing a lot of driving recently and it was a fantastic listen.
- Hansi 12y ago
  I finally read it last year and I agree it's excellent. One of the best non-fiction books I've read.
- michaelpinto 12y ago
  PS that was what inspired me to post, i just finished the book and started to wonder what language did he code that in?
- nailer 12y ago
  It also changed my perception of both John Carmack and John Romero. The latter sometimes gets picked on for not being the engine guy and for Daikatana, but Johnwas writing level editors, compression apps, and massive amounts of tooling work allowing Carmack to focus exclusively on the engine. He also waded through a flooded lake to get to work one day.
jboggan 12y ago
Dave Taylor, whom the article calls the "spackle coder" is a really brilliant and interesting guy. He was my roommate for awhile and I heard some fascinating stories (he did the sound engine for Quake which involved a lot of time spent with Trent Reznor). My favorite was when I asked him what kinds of (presumably brutal) music everyone was listening to during the creation of Doom. The most commonly listened-to artist: Sarah McLachlan.
bluedino 12y ago
In light of the current 'Blurred Lines' lawsuits, how did id ever get away with basically ripping of Metallica for the Doom soundtrack?
- ssmoot 12y ago
  That sounded odd to me, so I looked it up: http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_music http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_music It's been awhile, but I don't recall DOOM music reminding me of Metallica. I guess I only hear E1M1 in my memory though. Did you have any particular tracks in mind for comparison?
  - tdicola 12y ago
    Master of Puppets is one IMHO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdbXIUCUb20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdbXIUCUb20
- tokenrove 12y ago
  (Slayer and Pantera, too. See http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_music http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_music for one plausible breakdown of "inspirations". The "Bobby Prince is a Filthy Thief" compilation, too: http://www.doomworld.com/linguica/doomcovers/ http://www.doomworld.com/linguica/doomcovers/) The soundtrack didn't make a huge amount of money, and wasn't highly visible, would be the real reasons, as far as I can see. Also, arguably, the Blurred Lines lawsuit sets a new precedent for this kind of thing. The story goes that Bobby Prince, being a lawyer, knew just how much he could copy without infringing, but that seems pretty tenuous in some of these cases.
  - jewbacca 12y ago
    "Doom and Metal/Rock: A Comprehensive Comparison" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H3BB2gKKeY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H3BB2gKKeY
- tdicola 12y ago
  The guy that made the music (Bobby Prince) was a lawyer, so I bet he knew exactly what you could and couldn't get away with.
simonh 12y ago
I used to see Sandy Petersen from time to time at roleplaying games conventions, in the UK and Germany. He had a black t-shirt withe the DOOM logo on the front and "Wrote it!" On the back.
lukeman 12y ago
Here's a great video recorded at id Software in November of 1993 by Dan Linton, a visiting BBS operator: https://vimeo.com/4022128 https://vimeo.com/4022128 Around a month later, the first public version of Doom was uploaded to the BBS that Dan Linton ran.
nilic 12y ago
Nice Machinima documentary about id Software - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCafnH_eisA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCafnH_eisA
maurits 12y ago
Almost obligatory, fabians code reviews [1] are a joy to read (even if you spend most of your time in Matlab). [1]: http://fabiensanglard.net/ http://fabiensanglard.net/
momentofinertia 12y ago
I clicked the link thinking it was about a new development methodology...

74 points by michaelpinto 12y ago

What's amazing to me is that both Doom and the first web server were created on NeXT workstations. It's also interesting to see that while everyone a few years ago was rushing to learn Objective-C that Carmack was coding with it in 1992. Looking back on it maybe Steve Job's "lost years" were in fact his most productive (especially given that Pixar made Toy Story during this era).

nextos 12y ago
Indeed. Oversimplifying a bit, modern Apple is largely NeXT stuff running on more affordable hardware. NeXT was very forward thinking, so this is far from a criticism to Apple. This is a pattern I've spotted quite often, interesting ideas brilliant people have but that can only be executed many years later, when technology catches up.

JeremyMorgan 12y ago

The tools were developed in ObjC, but the game engine itself was coded in C.

melling 12y ago
The source is on GitHub: https://github.com/id-Software/DOOM https://github.com/id-Software/DOOM
- benkant 12y ago
  > https://github.com/id-Software/DOOM/blob/master/linuxdoom-1.10/g_game.c#L456 https://github.com/id-Software/DOOM/blob/master/linuxdoom-1.... One thing that's clear when reading game source code is that they hard code a lot more than I would writing system or application software. That's to be expected given the nature of the beast, but it's still one of the first obvious differences.
  - treve 12y ago
    And this also perfectly explains why computers don't feel exponentially faster than 20 years ago. We're always taught to add abstractions all the time.

javery 12y ago

I highly recommend the book Masters of Doom. Great writing and such a great story.

prezjordan 12y ago
I wish I could go back and read that book for the first time again.
benkant 12y ago
It's on Audible as well, narrated by Wil Wheaton. I've been doing a lot of driving recently and it was a fantastic listen.
Hansi 12y ago
I finally read it last year and I agree it's excellent. One of the best non-fiction books I've read.
michaelpinto 12y ago
PS that was what inspired me to post, i just finished the book and started to wonder what language did he code that in?
nailer 12y ago
It also changed my perception of both John Carmack and John Romero. The latter sometimes gets picked on for not being the engine guy and for Daikatana, but Johnwas writing level editors, compression apps, and massive amounts of tooling work allowing Carmack to focus exclusively on the engine. He also waded through a flooded lake to get to work one day.

jboggan 12y ago

Dave Taylor, whom the article calls the "spackle coder" is a really brilliant and interesting guy. He was my roommate for awhile and I heard some fascinating stories (he did the sound engine for Quake which involved a lot of time spent with Trent Reznor). My favorite was when I asked him what kinds of (presumably brutal) music everyone was listening to during the creation of Doom. The most commonly listened-to artist: Sarah McLachlan.

bluedino 12y ago

In light of the current 'Blurred Lines' lawsuits, how did id ever get away with basically ripping of Metallica for the Doom soundtrack?

ssmoot 12y ago
That sounded odd to me, so I looked it up: http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_music http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_music It's been awhile, but I don't recall DOOM music reminding me of Metallica. I guess I only hear E1M1 in my memory though. Did you have any particular tracks in mind for comparison?
- tdicola 12y ago
  Master of Puppets is one IMHO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdbXIUCUb20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdbXIUCUb20
tokenrove 12y ago
(Slayer and Pantera, too. See http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_music http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_music for one plausible breakdown of "inspirations". The "Bobby Prince is a Filthy Thief" compilation, too: http://www.doomworld.com/linguica/doomcovers/ http://www.doomworld.com/linguica/doomcovers/) The soundtrack didn't make a huge amount of money, and wasn't highly visible, would be the real reasons, as far as I can see. Also, arguably, the Blurred Lines lawsuit sets a new precedent for this kind of thing. The story goes that Bobby Prince, being a lawyer, knew just how much he could copy without infringing, but that seems pretty tenuous in some of these cases.
- jewbacca 12y ago
  "Doom and Metal/Rock: A Comprehensive Comparison" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H3BB2gKKeY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H3BB2gKKeY
tdicola 12y ago
The guy that made the music (Bobby Prince) was a lawyer, so I bet he knew exactly what you could and couldn't get away with.

simonh 12y ago

I used to see Sandy Petersen from time to time at roleplaying games conventions, in the UK and Germany. He had a black t-shirt withe the DOOM logo on the front and "Wrote it!" On the back.

lukeman 12y ago

Here's a great video recorded at id Software in November of 1993 by Dan Linton, a visiting BBS operator: https://vimeo.com/4022128 https://vimeo.com/4022128 Around a month later, the first public version of Doom was uploaded to the BBS that Dan Linton ran.

nilic 12y ago

Nice Machinima documentary about id Software - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCafnH_eisA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCafnH_eisA

maurits 12y ago

Almost obligatory, fabians code reviews [1] are a joy to read (even if you spend most of your time in Matlab). [1]: http://fabiensanglard.net/ http://fabiensanglard.net/

momentofinertia 12y ago

I clicked the link thinking it was about a new development methodology...