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>I'm somewhat surprised that anyone would have spent 10 years flailing in this arena and not learned that. "I’ve always had some type of entrepreneur trapped i

by Retra 12y ago

>I'm somewhat surprised that anyone would have spent 10 years flailing in this arena and not learned that. "I’ve always had some type of entrepreneur trapped inside me. [...] I decided I’ll start a blog and make money via AdSense ads." This is not the thought process of someone with the competence to know how to learn effectively. It sounds like someone who just wants to be a cog in a money wheel, both learning as little as possible and creating as little value as possible. It is especially telling that they think their age is somehow relevant in the picture of how much money they are making or what their credit limit is.

socialist_coder 12y ago
Yep. This guy takes "get rich quick" to the next level. In that same time period he could have founded real startups with real products. Instead, he got 10 years of putting his blood, sweat, and tears into bullshit money making schemes.
- johnward 12y ago
  Founding a real startup with real products also leads to failure most of the time. We just hear about the successes more often on HN.
  - AdamFernandez 12y ago
    I would imagine that online 'get rich quick schemes' have an even higher rate of failure than most startups. Perhaps 99.99% versus 90-95%?
    - johnward 12y ago
      With some startups it's hard to distinguish between the two to be honest. I almost feel like the way the media covers startups they are a "get rich quick scheme". What percentage have a successful exit? I don't know. I did hit the startup lottery once as a late hire and got about $8k from the acquisition. However, I do agree I would have better spent those years thinking about how I could solve people's problems instead preying on their insecurities.
      - x0x0 12y ago
        Not all non-get rich quick schemes are startups. I think what people here are saying is that given the obvious level of effort you (I assume you're the author) put into this, you could have put serious dents in a few patio11/rob walling style saas or other small product businesses. I understand there's money to be made chasing various arbitrages in online advertising, but those get plugged over time. Plus a product business would make me feel better about what I spend all day doing.
        johnward 12y ago
        Maybe you're right. I really don't think I have the skills pull off something like that.
        x0x0 12y ago
        Walling's book start small, stay small may help you get started. Amy Hoy talks about this a bunch; she runs a paid course but also has a ton of free content. You should check them out. I've also read about people making serious money from advertising; it seems like the time investment to understand all that stuff is big enough that it could help you understand a small business instead.
        johnward 12y ago
        I've gone through 30x500 which is kind of what shifted my focus to products. I haven't really taken any action with that yet though but it seems to work for some others.
        socialist_coder 12y ago
        I dunno, just from reading your blog post I think you showed you have a lot of ingenuity, intelligence, passion, and perseverance- add some good product sense and you have yourself a decent web startup.
    - kposehn 12y ago
      Let's separate get-rich-quick from the actual process of making affiliate campaigns, testing and scaling them. Here's some stats (top-level, very approximate) from my own experience: * Number of campaigns created & stage 1 testing: 500+ * % to stage 2: ~25% * % from stage 1 to 2: 20% * % from stage 2 to "success": ~50% In the end, I'd say that roughly 5% of my affiliate campaigns were successful. Success is defined as eventually returning the test budget * 4. The key was that if I got a campaign to stage 2 I had a very high likelihood of profit. Literally 50% of the stage 2 campaigns became successes (most stage 2's broke even close to it). Of those successful campaigns, only 10% of them generated 90% of my profits on average. The end result is that ~1% of all the campaigns I made made 90% of the profits, which is quite accurate. Over the span of 7 years of being a full-time affiliate (excluding the part-time years) 12 campaigns were the main money drivers.
- mb_72 12y ago
  At least he's being honest with himself. I see many posts here about people learning a tiny bit of some programming language, making (IMO) unnecessary products and then looking to cash out / sell out at the first opportunity and move on to the 'next big thing' to do it all again.
logn 12y ago
The credit limit was about fronting money to grow the business. Overall I think HN is being too harsh. This is a person taking a rather honest look at himself and giving us a glimpse into his life that also happens to capture an interesting history of the Internet.
- kposehn 12y ago
  I agree about the harshness here. I'm surprised and a bit disappointed. Affiliates are often very secretive because the barrier to entry is extremely low, and as such they don't want to reveal what they do or how. That he took that step, even in retrospect, to post it publicly is to be commended. Why not reveal the workings and the lessons he has learned? Let's value it for what it is.
  - kposehn 12y ago
    And after posting this, the harshness has decreased markedly. This is why HN rules.
  - marincounty 12y ago
    Yea, he was honest! He wasn't hiding in denial. It was one of the better HN links I have read. I welcome posts like this. What I have read too much of is success/fail stories that leave out the most important details; number one is daddy gave me the money to start my risky business(that business could be anything). Number two is ripping off someone's idea--blatantly(without any remorse, and continue to justify their slimy behavior until they die). It amazes me just how selfish/sadistic some people, even family and friends can be when it comes to money. I have a successful sister who constantly wonders why her mother and brothers never call--it's beyond pathetic, and she doesn't have a clue to why there's no one left. Actually, she knows, but the denial is thick. We grew up poor, so I know that feeling of desperation, but screwing over people repeatedly--adds up. I don't know this guy, but at least he was honest. To guy's who don't have a rich family, or a license to steal; if you make money--it seems like late 20's through your thirties, hang on to it. Don't throw it away on living like Rapper. It will eventually dry up for so many of us. I know it's hard. You have hormones that literally shape your view of reality. Those hormones will go down. That woman you are so trying to impress will change. If you have a fear of death, that fear goes down as you age. I'm not giving advise. I just releate to this guy's financial journey.

by Retra 12y ago

socialist_coder 12y ago

Yep. This guy takes "get rich quick" to the next level. In that same time period he could have founded real startups with real products. Instead, he got 10 years of putting his blood, sweat, and tears into bullshit money making schemes.

johnward 12y ago
Founding a real startup with real products also leads to failure most of the time. We just hear about the successes more often on HN.
- AdamFernandez 12y ago
  I would imagine that online 'get rich quick schemes' have an even higher rate of failure than most startups. Perhaps 99.99% versus 90-95%?
  - johnward 12y ago
    With some startups it's hard to distinguish between the two to be honest. I almost feel like the way the media covers startups they are a "get rich quick scheme". What percentage have a successful exit? I don't know. I did hit the startup lottery once as a late hire and got about $8k from the acquisition. However, I do agree I would have better spent those years thinking about how I could solve people's problems instead preying on their insecurities.
    - x0x0 12y ago
      Not all non-get rich quick schemes are startups. I think what people here are saying is that given the obvious level of effort you (I assume you're the author) put into this, you could have put serious dents in a few patio11/rob walling style saas or other small product businesses. I understand there's money to be made chasing various arbitrages in online advertising, but those get plugged over time. Plus a product business would make me feel better about what I spend all day doing.
      - johnward 12y ago
        Maybe you're right. I really don't think I have the skills pull off something like that.
        x0x0 12y ago
        Walling's book start small, stay small may help you get started. Amy Hoy talks about this a bunch; she runs a paid course but also has a ton of free content. You should check them out. I've also read about people making serious money from advertising; it seems like the time investment to understand all that stuff is big enough that it could help you understand a small business instead.
        johnward 12y ago
        I've gone through 30x500 which is kind of what shifted my focus to products. I haven't really taken any action with that yet though but it seems to work for some others.
        socialist_coder 12y ago
        I dunno, just from reading your blog post I think you showed you have a lot of ingenuity, intelligence, passion, and perseverance- add some good product sense and you have yourself a decent web startup.
  - kposehn 12y ago
    Let's separate get-rich-quick from the actual process of making affiliate campaigns, testing and scaling them. Here's some stats (top-level, very approximate) from my own experience: * Number of campaigns created & stage 1 testing: 500+ * % to stage 2: ~25% * % from stage 1 to 2: 20% * % from stage 2 to "success": ~50% In the end, I'd say that roughly 5% of my affiliate campaigns were successful. Success is defined as eventually returning the test budget * 4. The key was that if I got a campaign to stage 2 I had a very high likelihood of profit. Literally 50% of the stage 2 campaigns became successes (most stage 2's broke even close to it). Of those successful campaigns, only 10% of them generated 90% of my profits on average. The end result is that ~1% of all the campaigns I made made 90% of the profits, which is quite accurate. Over the span of 7 years of being a full-time affiliate (excluding the part-time years) 12 campaigns were the main money drivers.
mb_72 12y ago
At least he's being honest with himself. I see many posts here about people learning a tiny bit of some programming language, making (IMO) unnecessary products and then looking to cash out / sell out at the first opportunity and move on to the 'next big thing' to do it all again.

logn 12y ago

The credit limit was about fronting money to grow the business. Overall I think HN is being too harsh. This is a person taking a rather honest look at himself and giving us a glimpse into his life that also happens to capture an interesting history of the Internet.

kposehn 12y ago
I agree about the harshness here. I'm surprised and a bit disappointed. Affiliates are often very secretive because the barrier to entry is extremely low, and as such they don't want to reveal what they do or how. That he took that step, even in retrospect, to post it publicly is to be commended. Why not reveal the workings and the lessons he has learned? Let's value it for what it is.
- kposehn 12y ago
  And after posting this, the harshness has decreased markedly. This is why HN rules.
- marincounty 12y ago
  Yea, he was honest! He wasn't hiding in denial. It was one of the better HN links I have read. I welcome posts like this. What I have read too much of is success/fail stories that leave out the most important details; number one is daddy gave me the money to start my risky business(that business could be anything). Number two is ripping off someone's idea--blatantly(without any remorse, and continue to justify their slimy behavior until they die). It amazes me just how selfish/sadistic some people, even family and friends can be when it comes to money. I have a successful sister who constantly wonders why her mother and brothers never call--it's beyond pathetic, and she doesn't have a clue to why there's no one left. Actually, she knows, but the denial is thick. We grew up poor, so I know that feeling of desperation, but screwing over people repeatedly--adds up. I don't know this guy, but at least he was honest. To guy's who don't have a rich family, or a license to steal; if you make money--it seems like late 20's through your thirties, hang on to it. Don't throw it away on living like Rapper. It will eventually dry up for so many of us. I know it's hard. You have hormones that literally shape your view of reality. Those hormones will go down. That woman you are so trying to impress will change. If you have a fear of death, that fear goes down as you age. I'm not giving advise. I just releate to this guy's financial journey.