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"Reminds me a lot of Pyongyang" Or Brasilia. Three cities built on the communist central planning principles of the post-war American suburb reflect, each in i

"Reminds me a lot of Pyongyang" Or Brasilia. Three cities built on the communist central planning principles of the post-war American suburb reflect, each in its own way, the oppression and alienation that motorcar-oriented planning imposes on humans. [0] There is an alternative to suburban hell. The traditional city humans have loved for thousands of years is still possible. [1] There are even great accessible, affordable examples in Burma and Brazil. In places like North Korea and the USA, the destruction of traditional free ways of life has been more complete. Though if you belong to the powerful and monied elite you might be able to afford to live in the few remaining neighborhoods in Pyongyang or San Francisco where traditional city design from decades ago is grandfathered in. [0] http://kunstler.com/books/the-geography-of-nowhere/ http://kunstler.com/books/the-geography-of-nowhere/ [1] http://www.newworldeconomics.com/archives/2008/072008.html http://www.newworldeconomics.com/archives/2008/072008.html

forinti 12y ago
I beg to differ. Brasilia was built on Modernist principles. It was very much inspired on the work of Le Corbusier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier). It has nothing to do with communism.
- agumonkey 12y ago
  Maybe communist urbanism was inspired by Modernism ?
- WildUtah 12y ago
  Corbu was all about controlling the details of daily life by top-down commands from central authorities. His ambitions were to wipe out and knock down Paris and replace it with orderly and easily controlled towers and sight lines. Traditional cities with their chaos, entrepreneurship, freedom, variety, and individualism didn't interest him. The tower in the park required hugely expensive (at the time) commitment to motorcars and freeways surrounding and fixing the limits of mobility for the poor and middle class. Centralised government and hierarchical businesses were needed to manage and planned lives of humans in Corbu's city. Everything about Corbu reflected the totalitarian age in which he lived. His dreams are the same as the communists' and merit the same fate.
cromwellian 12y ago
"There is an alternative to suburban hell. The traditional city humans have loved for thousands of years is still possible. [1] There are even great accessible, affordable examples in Burma and Brazil. In places like North Korea and the USA, the destruction of traditional free ways of life has been more complete." This is nostalgia. For most of human existence, we did not live in cities, sipping lattes in outdoor, safe, cafes with clean water. We lived nomadically or in small tribes and villages. The invention of the city brought disease, slavery, slums, corruption, and a whole host of other problems. The "traditional free way of life" was not living in a city where you couldn't be a farmer, but had to work for someone else on someone else's land. Comparing North Korea to the US is just a non-sequitur. This reeks of hipster snobby elitism.
- danans 12y ago
  You both seem to arguing with extremes ends of human settlement configuration - planned empty mega suburbs like this one in Burma and hunter-gatherer bands before the dawn of agriculture. Sort of a contrived comparison, isn't it? Re: affordability - I don't know about Burma or Brazil, but in the US, safe, medium-high density neighborhoods with walkable commercial districts and an active civic life are very expensive compared to the car-bound exurban cities in the same metropolitan area. So much that they are only accessible to the upper-middle class to wealthy. Also, cities didn't invent slavery or bring on disease. These were on the increase from the onset of agriculture due to the demand for labor and the co-habitation of humans and domestic animals. In fact, there may be genetic evidence of this: There was an article linked on HN yesterday that tried to explain the apparent loss of marker diversity in the Y chromosome after the advent of agriculture to male agricultural slaves being denied the right to reproduce.
- WildUtah 12y ago
  "The "traditional free way of life" was not living in a city where you couldn't be a farmer" This is nostalgia. For most of human existence, we did not farm. We lived in small hunter gatherer bands in very small numbers migrating over vast open landscapes. But that doesn't invalidate the dream of being a freehold farmer in today's world. It's no reason to prohibit being a small independent yeoman farmer the way North Korea has. And there's no reason to prohibit building a traditional city and living an urban life the way US central planning has outside a few grandfathered exceptions which have become incredibly expensive because demand rises while supply cannot grow.

forinti 12y ago

I beg to differ. Brasilia was built on Modernist principles. It was very much inspired on the work of Le Corbusier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier). It has nothing to do with communism.

agumonkey 12y ago
Maybe communist urbanism was inspired by Modernism ?
WildUtah 12y ago
Corbu was all about controlling the details of daily life by top-down commands from central authorities. His ambitions were to wipe out and knock down Paris and replace it with orderly and easily controlled towers and sight lines. Traditional cities with their chaos, entrepreneurship, freedom, variety, and individualism didn't interest him. The tower in the park required hugely expensive (at the time) commitment to motorcars and freeways surrounding and fixing the limits of mobility for the poor and middle class. Centralised government and hierarchical businesses were needed to manage and planned lives of humans in Corbu's city. Everything about Corbu reflected the totalitarian age in which he lived. His dreams are the same as the communists' and merit the same fate.

cromwellian 12y ago

"There is an alternative to suburban hell. The traditional city humans have loved for thousands of years is still possible. [1] There are even great accessible, affordable examples in Burma and Brazil. In places like North Korea and the USA, the destruction of traditional free ways of life has been more complete." This is nostalgia. For most of human existence, we did not live in cities, sipping lattes in outdoor, safe, cafes with clean water. We lived nomadically or in small tribes and villages. The invention of the city brought disease, slavery, slums, corruption, and a whole host of other problems. The "traditional free way of life" was not living in a city where you couldn't be a farmer, but had to work for someone else on someone else's land. Comparing North Korea to the US is just a non-sequitur. This reeks of hipster snobby elitism.

danans 12y ago
You both seem to arguing with extremes ends of human settlement configuration - planned empty mega suburbs like this one in Burma and hunter-gatherer bands before the dawn of agriculture. Sort of a contrived comparison, isn't it? Re: affordability - I don't know about Burma or Brazil, but in the US, safe, medium-high density neighborhoods with walkable commercial districts and an active civic life are very expensive compared to the car-bound exurban cities in the same metropolitan area. So much that they are only accessible to the upper-middle class to wealthy. Also, cities didn't invent slavery or bring on disease. These were on the increase from the onset of agriculture due to the demand for labor and the co-habitation of humans and domestic animals. In fact, there may be genetic evidence of this: There was an article linked on HN yesterday that tried to explain the apparent loss of marker diversity in the Y chromosome after the advent of agriculture to male agricultural slaves being denied the right to reproduce.
WildUtah 12y ago
"The "traditional free way of life" was not living in a city where you couldn't be a farmer" This is nostalgia. For most of human existence, we did not farm. We lived in small hunter gatherer bands in very small numbers migrating over vast open landscapes. But that doesn't invalidate the dream of being a freehold farmer in today's world. It's no reason to prohibit being a small independent yeoman farmer the way North Korea has. And there's no reason to prohibit building a traditional city and living an urban life the way US central planning has outside a few grandfathered exceptions which have become incredibly expensive because demand rises while supply cannot grow.