8 ms·

I hate this sentiment. Yes, Elon makes huge promises. And you know what? He frequently gets there. Everyone quoted in the article says "No". Elon says "Why not?

by pbreit 12y ago

I hate this sentiment. Yes, Elon makes huge promises. And you know what? He frequently gets there. Everyone quoted in the article says "No". Elon says "Why not?" And you're worried about the engineers.

derefr 12y ago
"He" doesn't frequently get there. The engineers get there. Or they don't. If they don't, whose fault do you imagine it is?
- pbreit 12y ago
  You do realize that he co-founded and is running both a successful electric car company and a successful rocket company? And before that co-founded an insanely successful payments company?
  - jacobolus 12y ago
    Yes, but he also frequently makes false (or at best incredibly misleading) public statements about how far along they are on such projects. (Source: friend-of-a-friend is one of those groaning Tesla engineers.)
    - pbreit 12y ago
      I worked for him directly. That's how he gets amazing stuff done. And clearly it works. If employees aren't up for it, probably best to find something else.
      - _ZeD_ 12y ago
        Were you an engineerer or a seller?
        throwaway12347 12y ago
        He was a product manager [1]. Before that, he worked as a finance guy [2]. He was not an engineer. [1] https://www.crunchbase.com/person/patrick-breitenbach https://www.crunchbase.com/person/patrick-breitenbach [2] https://www.linkedin.com/in/pbreitenbach https://www.linkedin.com/in/pbreitenbach
        dang 12y ago
        Doxing is not allowed on Hacker News.
        mkal_tsr 12y ago
        This information is very easily found from searching based off their username. Is HN actively preventing people from registering with usernames that are on other sites and services? If not, what are the limits and connections between one's username and one's username on other websites? Further, what is the limit between one's username and full name and/or projects that are indexed on every major search engine? Should we not title this post "Tesla CEO" else we dox that individual?
        dang 12y ago
        It doesn't matter how easily the information is found. By "doxing" I meant posting someone's personal details as a way of attacking them. None of us would want that done to ourselves, and we owe the same consideration to others. Nor is it needed for substantive discussion, which is the purpose of HN threads.
        diminoten 12y ago
        Am I doxxing myself by using my last name as my username, or by putting my real name, current position at my company, and my email address in my profile? The problem with your golden rule there is that you make assumptions about what other people want.
    - EC1 12y ago
      What are you trying to accomplish with this line of questioning. Yes, people fail. What's your point?
      - tensor 12y ago
        His original point was that people are crediting Musk with what is actually the success of the engineers working there. The public loves to give credit to figureheads. Naturally, this upsets the people actually doing the innovation who get ignored.
        EC1 12y ago
        That's exactly what I mean. Why state the incredibly obvious? Is there anyone who actually thinks Musk sat there and built the Tesla in his basement? Am I supposed to reach out and personally shake the hands of each engineer? The engineers "thank you" comes in many forms. The fulfillment of the job. The privilege to work on cutting edge tech. The satisfaction of their customers. Their salary and so on and so forth.
        mkal_tsr 12y ago
        > The fulfillment of the job Irrelevant > The privilege to work on cutting edge tech Irrelevant > The satisfaction of their customers > Their salary and so on and so forth Irrelevant, that is/was part of their contract regardless of outcome (otherwise R&D departments wouldn't exist, failure tolerances wouldn't exist, etc). Musk merely gave directive, he didn't implement or do this R&D on his own. Calling this Musk's success is like saying Einstein design and built the atom bomb thus he is solely responsible for the death of many a Japanese. But society doesn't take that point of view, instead only that he contributed to it, not that he owned it through and through. A good leader leads their subordinates, but they are not the sole factor in their subordinates achieving success. If a leader does not recognize their subordinates, they will soon find they have no subordinates to lead.
        xyz198 12y ago
    - EC1 12y ago
      What are you trying to accomplish with this line of questioning. Yes, people fail. What's your point?
    - postmeta 12y ago
      If you listen to his interviews, he qualifies most of his statements, certainly more than 90% of the professional business BSers I know. Definitely he qualifies and hesitates much more than most CEOs, that's probably why people emotionally invest in his statements, they trust he at least performed some critical analysis before spitting out the conclusion or tweet.
  - hansy 12y ago
    And a solar energy company. Well technically he helped his cousins start it and serves as the company's Chairman[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SolarCity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SolarCity
    - pbreit 12y ago
      And Zip2. He's at least 4 for 4 and maybe 5 for 5. And these aren't little web sites or mobile apps. Payments ($1.5b), automobiles ($25b), rockets ($10b), solar power ($5b).
      - jeffwass 12y ago
        Yeah, his record pretty amazing. I mean, even his least successful startup zip2 'only' sold for $300m, earning him a 'measly' $20m, and that was his first one after college.
  - sfjailbird 12y ago
    He didn't co-found neither Tesla, much less PayPal. I like him, he has done well but his PR has done even better.
- mhomde 12y ago
  You can't reach goals you never set. That's how we went to the moon.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

mark_integerdsv 12y ago

This comes up a lot on various forums. The more technical the crowd the more you hear this kind of thing but it really does bear mentioning that if these engineers could be doing it without these figureheads then really, they should do that. They fact that it's plausible has no bearing on the fact that it is often simply not the case. Why did Apple nearly fail before Jobs return? Why are Tesla and SpaceX a direct result of one mans vision? I'm not saying that no one else is involved in these businesses, I don't think anyone is stupid enough to assert that these are not examples of fantastically great organisations made up of brilliant engineers and probably project managers and lawyers and all of the other parts that make up a great companay but yet the fact remains that the 'figurehead' is there. Why is that if these 'figureheads' serve no purpose other than to court the media?

nitrogen 12y ago
The more technical the crowd the more you hear this kind of thing but it really does bear mentioning that if these engineers could be doing it without these figureheads then really, they should do that. This is an oldish thread, but I want to point out that the main reason engineers need figureheads is to attract capital. The second reason is to unify the engineers toward a common goal. I do believe engineers deserve a lot more credit from society, and also that engineers underestimate the contributions of non-engineers. I feel that the subtly snide way you worded your statement ("really, they should do that") is needlessly derisive to both groups.
- mark_integerdsv 12y ago
  You have my apologies for any perceived or actual snark. I hadn't intended to insult anyone and in terms of derision, I am certainly in no position to be doling it out. Going back to the comment in question though, it is kind of the crux of the matter as I read it. There are some posts further up that are very sarcastic about the contributions of these 'figureheads' and my statement to those people stands for itself: if these 'figureheads' are not necessary then do it without them. I go on to provide very popular examples of where this simply isn't how things work. Note that I have never even so much as intimated that it couldn't work like that just that it doesn't often seem to. I will admit that there is perhaps some of my own insecurity slipping in here. As someone with a technical background who now works in a less technical capacity I think I may have taken some of these comments personally and allowed for them to pile onto an already toppling pile of impostor syndrome type thinking. The fact remains though that to build something you need engineers, you also need architects, you also need someone to bankroll the project. Asserting that one or more of these players are more important that others does seem illogical to me and it would probably take a lot to change that outlook on my part.