6 ms·

Wow, I didn't realize they had been building in the necessary sensors all along. To just light this up one day for the existing fleet with an OTA update is noth

by tfe 12y ago

Wow, I didn't realize they had been building in the necessary sensors all along. To just light this up one day for the existing fleet with an OTA update is nothing short of astounding.

orblivion 12y ago
Particularly since they didn't price the cars to include this feature.
- ForHackernews 12y ago
  I mean, the cars are insanely expensive already. I think they're priced to include plenty.
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    The pricing includes R&D costs for the next, cheaper model. That's the basics of Tesla's strategy - start with high-end, let the rich bankroll the neccessary work to bring electric cars to the masses.
  - declan 12y ago
    Teslas are in line with other luxury sedans (of course you may view all of those are insanely expensive). The 60 starts at $64K, cash price counting tax credits, and the P85 is $96K. Compare that with the starting prices of the BMW 5-series, $50K (base) to $94K (M5). The Porsche Panamera is $78K to $180K starting price. The Model S has been tested against the Mercedes S550, which starts at $94K. If you look at the performance of the P85D, especially its horsepower and torque, you arguably get far more for your money than you do with any petrol-powered sedan. It's even quicker than the Panamera Turbo. I prefer lighter vehicles -- the P85D is 50% heavier than my RWD manual transmission'd sports car -- but if I needed a sedan Tesla would now be my default choice.
    - rsync 12y ago
      Tesla performance is astounding - better than many cars that are $250k and more. Tesla interior/luxury/comfort is astonishingly low. All mid-ranged luxury cars (A6, 5-Series, E-class, etc.) are much, much nicer cars to drive in, and many of the lower end (3 series, C class) have nicer interiors as well.
      - declan 12y ago
        On the performance point, you're quite right on 0-60 speeds. Electric motors, all-wheel drive, and smart launch control will give you excellent times. On a track, though, where weight and handling matter so much, I wonder what the performance would be. The Tesla Model S (Performance Model) and the Tesla Roadster have essentially the same lap time around Laguna Seca as a humble VW Golf and Ford Focus -- and all four are comfortably beaten by a $30K Subaru WRX STi. Source: http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/model-s-laguna-seca-lap-times http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/model-s-laguna-seca-l... Now that was likely not the P85D, but that model's extra performance will be offset by the extra 300lbs and curb weight of approximately 5000(!) lbs. It may be helped by a more even front/rear weight distribution and AWD. (I admit I've spent the last three days on the track at Laguna Seca, so I may be overly fixated on lap times...) This is not to take away from Tesla's remarkable accomplishments in such a short time. The P85D is an amazing car.
        saiya-jin 12y ago
        Track times are irrelevant achievement for 99% of people here (or anywhere), general handling performance not so much. Not only makes it driving experience much more pleasure, it also increases safety (in those crazy split-second-maneuvers situations which might end up in car crash if things go wrong). It also increases general stability of vehicle, and so on. My personal opinion - this is clearly future. I am glad for early adopters, to support this trend and this particular "disruptive" company, to benefits of us all and our kids. Present - not so much for me. I run 10 year old 3-litre diesel bmw 3-series, which was dirt cheap few years ago, and costs me nearly nothing to run (oil & xenon light bulbs change). Various state and insurance fees are most of expenses. These cars cannot compete on this segment (higher-middle class sedans), not in fun factor (ie that handling), not in price, not in reach - living in europe, I go quite frequently to road trips of several thousand kms... good luck with charging car along in present europe. It happened to me a few times I almost ran out of gas on remote german highways! So far, it's luxury city car for me, with vast future potential. As for why I should need a luxury city car, I have no clue...
- smackfu 12y ago
  Don't you need to buy the $4250 "Tech Package With Autopilot" to get this feature? It seems like that includes the various sensors for lane keeping and automatic cruise control. Or maybe every car includes the sensors, and you are just paying for the software?
  - mikeash 12y ago
    That last bit is precisely how it is. The hardware is there on all cars sold after mid-September 2014. The software features are divided semi-arbitrarily into "convenience" and "safety" features. All cars get "safety" features, but you have to pay extra for the tech package to get "convenience" features.
mikeg8 12y ago
Exactly my thoughts as well.
colechristensen 12y ago
This was announced to somewhat of a failure a few months back – there was a big stock rally leading up to the announcement and a big crash afterwards because people didn't seem to get it, that some significant number of existing Telsas were going to be self-driving.
- kgc 12y ago
  Perhaps the fact that the tech was already built into sold cars - cars that have already impacted Tesla's bottom line - was not an attractive thought for investors. As an investor, typically, you want sales to increase more rather than increase less.
a_c_s 12y ago
Using these sensors is cool, but not so different from what other car companies are doing (Ford, Toyota, Mercedes-Benz, ...?). It seems Google is the "odd one out" relying on primarily on different hardware (LIDAR).

by tfe 12y ago

Wow, I didn't realize they had been building in the necessary sensors all along. To just light this up one day for the existing fleet with an OTA update is nothing short of astounding.

orblivion 12y ago

Particularly since they didn't price the cars to include this feature.

ForHackernews 12y ago
I mean, the cars are insanely expensive already. I think they're priced to include plenty.
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  The pricing includes R&D costs for the next, cheaper model. That's the basics of Tesla's strategy - start with high-end, let the rich bankroll the neccessary work to bring electric cars to the masses.
- declan 12y ago
  Teslas are in line with other luxury sedans (of course you may view all of those are insanely expensive). The 60 starts at $64K, cash price counting tax credits, and the P85 is $96K. Compare that with the starting prices of the BMW 5-series, $50K (base) to $94K (M5). The Porsche Panamera is $78K to $180K starting price. The Model S has been tested against the Mercedes S550, which starts at $94K. If you look at the performance of the P85D, especially its horsepower and torque, you arguably get far more for your money than you do with any petrol-powered sedan. It's even quicker than the Panamera Turbo. I prefer lighter vehicles -- the P85D is 50% heavier than my RWD manual transmission'd sports car -- but if I needed a sedan Tesla would now be my default choice.
  - rsync 12y ago
    Tesla performance is astounding - better than many cars that are $250k and more. Tesla interior/luxury/comfort is astonishingly low. All mid-ranged luxury cars (A6, 5-Series, E-class, etc.) are much, much nicer cars to drive in, and many of the lower end (3 series, C class) have nicer interiors as well.
    - declan 12y ago
      On the performance point, you're quite right on 0-60 speeds. Electric motors, all-wheel drive, and smart launch control will give you excellent times. On a track, though, where weight and handling matter so much, I wonder what the performance would be. The Tesla Model S (Performance Model) and the Tesla Roadster have essentially the same lap time around Laguna Seca as a humble VW Golf and Ford Focus -- and all four are comfortably beaten by a $30K Subaru WRX STi. Source: http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/model-s-laguna-seca-lap-times http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/model-s-laguna-seca-l... Now that was likely not the P85D, but that model's extra performance will be offset by the extra 300lbs and curb weight of approximately 5000(!) lbs. It may be helped by a more even front/rear weight distribution and AWD. (I admit I've spent the last three days on the track at Laguna Seca, so I may be overly fixated on lap times...) This is not to take away from Tesla's remarkable accomplishments in such a short time. The P85D is an amazing car.
      - saiya-jin 12y ago
        Track times are irrelevant achievement for 99% of people here (or anywhere), general handling performance not so much. Not only makes it driving experience much more pleasure, it also increases safety (in those crazy split-second-maneuvers situations which might end up in car crash if things go wrong). It also increases general stability of vehicle, and so on. My personal opinion - this is clearly future. I am glad for early adopters, to support this trend and this particular "disruptive" company, to benefits of us all and our kids. Present - not so much for me. I run 10 year old 3-litre diesel bmw 3-series, which was dirt cheap few years ago, and costs me nearly nothing to run (oil & xenon light bulbs change). Various state and insurance fees are most of expenses. These cars cannot compete on this segment (higher-middle class sedans), not in fun factor (ie that handling), not in price, not in reach - living in europe, I go quite frequently to road trips of several thousand kms... good luck with charging car along in present europe. It happened to me a few times I almost ran out of gas on remote german highways! So far, it's luxury city car for me, with vast future potential. As for why I should need a luxury city car, I have no clue...
smackfu 12y ago
Don't you need to buy the $4250 "Tech Package With Autopilot" to get this feature? It seems like that includes the various sensors for lane keeping and automatic cruise control. Or maybe every car includes the sensors, and you are just paying for the software?
- mikeash 12y ago
  That last bit is precisely how it is. The hardware is there on all cars sold after mid-September 2014. The software features are divided semi-arbitrarily into "convenience" and "safety" features. All cars get "safety" features, but you have to pay extra for the tech package to get "convenience" features.

mikeg8 12y ago

Exactly my thoughts as well.

colechristensen 12y ago

This was announced to somewhat of a failure a few months back – there was a big stock rally leading up to the announcement and a big crash afterwards because people didn't seem to get it, that some significant number of existing Telsas were going to be self-driving.

kgc 12y ago
Perhaps the fact that the tech was already built into sold cars - cars that have already impacted Tesla's bottom line - was not an attractive thought for investors. As an investor, typically, you want sales to increase more rather than increase less.

a_c_s 12y ago

Using these sensors is cool, but not so different from what other car companies are doing (Ford, Toyota, Mercedes-Benz, ...?). It seems Google is the "odd one out" relying on primarily on different hardware (LIDAR).