4 ms·

On the other hand, this could be an incentive to purchase zero-emission vehicles instead of the alternatives, as the buying experience would be theoretically mu

by jaxbot 12y ago

On the other hand, this could be an incentive to purchase zero-emission vehicles instead of the alternatives, as the buying experience would be theoretically much better than that of going to a traditional dealer.

pavlov 12y ago
Yes. It's like visiting the websites of two competing software vendors. One has a plain-as-day pricing table with a $100 / month plan and a big blue "Buy now" button. The other company's Pricing page just reads: "Call us for a quote". Given the choice, who would ever go with the company that makes you talk to an enterprise salesman? Somehow car dealers in the U.S. have managed to enshrine this sleazy sales model into state laws, which is certainly an amazing feat of lobbying.
- morcheeba 12y ago
  "Call us" is if you're lucky. More like drive over to our place and we'll talk about it over stale coffee.
- trjordan 12y ago
  Pro-tip: if you're calling them, they don't have a $100 / month plan to sell you. There aren't many companies that sell most of their business at $5,000 / month through the website. And for those that do, talking to a sales rep gets you a discount just for picking up the phone. Also, having moved from programming to sales/marketing, I'm a bit more sympathetic towards the "call me" model of selling. There's a lot of companies (like mine) that aren't deliberately withholding information, but instead are training and enabling reps to walk you through a process that can't be navigated with blog posts and product pages alone. We do monitoring, and most of our customers treat our sales reps and pre-sales engineers as free consultants. Nothing magical about it, but talking to a human is valuable for problems like "how to a unify monitoring for my 1,000 servers are 24 teams which runs apps that are a result of 17 acquisitions".
  - pavlov 12y ago
    I imagine the car salesmen also think of buying a car as a "process that can't be navigated with blog posts and product pages alone". Probably your business has a more valid claim to that.
  - mikeash 12y ago
    There are areas where it's reasonable to ask people to call. Where it gets suspicious and tricky is when some businesses state prices up-front, and others ask you to call. When the nature of the thing requires contact, they'll (almost?) all say you should call. For example, plumbers typically won't advertised fixed rates for jobs, and in the rare cases they do that's a warning sign.
  - CamperBob2 12y ago
    There's a lot of companies (like mine) that aren't deliberately withholding information, but instead are training and enabling reps to walk you through a process that can't be navigated with blog posts and product pages alone. I've designed complex electronic devices via product pages (data sheets) and other online information sources, and sold them to the Federal government through GSA procurement. I'm pretty sure I can "navigate" your "process" without wasting time schmoozing your sales guys on the telephone. If you have a competitor who doesn't make me do that, they have a strong advantage over your company, right out of the gate. Just saying.
    - trjordan 12y ago
      I'm not questioning your intelligence! I'm sure you could do it. The more common scenario is that there are a ton of people involved, and it's not easy / worthwhile for the person who kicked this off to convince them all. Where the sales rep provides value there is they can help the you sell. You make an intro, they'll pull together a bunch of materials and demos and other crap to convince your coworkers that it's important. We do have a self-serve path which is about as easy as anybody else's, and our prices are stated up front. Most people can navigate that technically, but the larger organizations almost never take that route because of organizational / political concerns.
  - 12y ago
- steego 12y ago
  > which is certainly an amazing feat of lobbying. It's like I heard a collective "bitch please" come from the banks, food wholesalers, defense contractors, insurance companies, immigration lawyers, patent attorneys, entertainment industry, telcos, etc. etc.
- woobar 12y ago
  It's nothing like this. One has a plain-as-day pricing table with a $100 / month plan and a big blue "Buy now" button. The other company's Pricing page has $100/month plan with "Buy now" button and additional text: "Call us if you want to pay less".
- beachstartup 12y ago
  okay, this old trope again. anyone who has a $100/month plan has it on their website. it's 2015, saas is a thing now. nobody is going to make you call them for $100/month. ~$3k/month or ~$10k lump sum is roughly the threshold for enterprise sales that require you to talk to someone. they do this because anyone who pays anything less than that for an enterprise service or product is going to be a demanding, unreasonable, cheapskate, entitled, caustic asshole because they're not used to spending large amounts and the money is probably coming out of their pocket (small business or soho customer). nobody on earth wants to deal with that kind of customer. the phone call is designed to filter people out who get annoyed at needing to talk to someone. if you don't want to talk to anyone, you don't want to spend real money, because people who spend real money want to talk to real someones, usually multiple someones, the more someones the better. nobody wants to deal with the 'in between' customer who is too big for their consumer britches but won't step up to spend money for a real solution where real people on the other end of the line give a shit about their problems.
woobar 12y ago
I am not sure why the experience would be better. You always have the option of paying asking price to the traditional dealer. For some reason people that don't like to negotiate don't want to pay sticker price either.
- rifung 12y ago
  Even if you do pay the sticker price, you might also be trading your car in, in which case you still have to negotiate how much they will pay you for your car. Not only that but the sticker prices are usually artificially high since they are expecting negotiation with high prices for random add-ons like paint protection or other things nobody asked for.
  - woobar 12y ago
    1. If you trade your old car to Tesla, you still have to negotiate it's price. 2. I am not sure how is your opinion about price is related to the experience at the dealership. Sticker prices for all cars are available online, and you can make a decision if the car worth that price well in advance. Once you make that decision nothing is stopping you from having a great car buying experience.
    - rifung 12y ago
      You are totally right, that was dumb of me. Oops
smackfu 12y ago
If you are not price sensitive, it's very easy to have an excellent buying experience.
- nosuchthing 12y ago
  Yes if you are not concerned with wasting money, it's very easy to not care who takes your money.
  - ghaff 12y ago
    I assume his point is that makes car buying stressful for a lot of people is the negotiation thing. If you're willing to dispense with that--which can indeed save money in many circumstances--then it will indeed be less stressful. And, at the margins, that's not even an irrational decision.

by jaxbot 12y ago

pavlov 12y ago

Yes. It's like visiting the websites of two competing software vendors. One has a plain-as-day pricing table with a $100 / month plan and a big blue "Buy now" button. The other company's Pricing page just reads: "Call us for a quote". Given the choice, who would ever go with the company that makes you talk to an enterprise salesman? Somehow car dealers in the U.S. have managed to enshrine this sleazy sales model into state laws, which is certainly an amazing feat of lobbying.

morcheeba 12y ago
"Call us" is if you're lucky. More like drive over to our place and we'll talk about it over stale coffee.
trjordan 12y ago
Pro-tip: if you're calling them, they don't have a $100 / month plan to sell you. There aren't many companies that sell most of their business at $5,000 / month through the website. And for those that do, talking to a sales rep gets you a discount just for picking up the phone. Also, having moved from programming to sales/marketing, I'm a bit more sympathetic towards the "call me" model of selling. There's a lot of companies (like mine) that aren't deliberately withholding information, but instead are training and enabling reps to walk you through a process that can't be navigated with blog posts and product pages alone. We do monitoring, and most of our customers treat our sales reps and pre-sales engineers as free consultants. Nothing magical about it, but talking to a human is valuable for problems like "how to a unify monitoring for my 1,000 servers are 24 teams which runs apps that are a result of 17 acquisitions".
- pavlov 12y ago
  I imagine the car salesmen also think of buying a car as a "process that can't be navigated with blog posts and product pages alone". Probably your business has a more valid claim to that.
- mikeash 12y ago
  There are areas where it's reasonable to ask people to call. Where it gets suspicious and tricky is when some businesses state prices up-front, and others ask you to call. When the nature of the thing requires contact, they'll (almost?) all say you should call. For example, plumbers typically won't advertised fixed rates for jobs, and in the rare cases they do that's a warning sign.
- CamperBob2 12y ago
  There's a lot of companies (like mine) that aren't deliberately withholding information, but instead are training and enabling reps to walk you through a process that can't be navigated with blog posts and product pages alone. I've designed complex electronic devices via product pages (data sheets) and other online information sources, and sold them to the Federal government through GSA procurement. I'm pretty sure I can "navigate" your "process" without wasting time schmoozing your sales guys on the telephone. If you have a competitor who doesn't make me do that, they have a strong advantage over your company, right out of the gate. Just saying.
  - trjordan 12y ago
    I'm not questioning your intelligence! I'm sure you could do it. The more common scenario is that there are a ton of people involved, and it's not easy / worthwhile for the person who kicked this off to convince them all. Where the sales rep provides value there is they can help the you sell. You make an intro, they'll pull together a bunch of materials and demos and other crap to convince your coworkers that it's important. We do have a self-serve path which is about as easy as anybody else's, and our prices are stated up front. Most people can navigate that technically, but the larger organizations almost never take that route because of organizational / political concerns.
- 12y ago
steego 12y ago
> which is certainly an amazing feat of lobbying. It's like I heard a collective "bitch please" come from the banks, food wholesalers, defense contractors, insurance companies, immigration lawyers, patent attorneys, entertainment industry, telcos, etc. etc.
woobar 12y ago
It's nothing like this. One has a plain-as-day pricing table with a $100 / month plan and a big blue "Buy now" button. The other company's Pricing page has $100/month plan with "Buy now" button and additional text: "Call us if you want to pay less".
beachstartup 12y ago
okay, this old trope again. anyone who has a $100/month plan has it on their website. it's 2015, saas is a thing now. nobody is going to make you call them for $100/month. ~$3k/month or ~$10k lump sum is roughly the threshold for enterprise sales that require you to talk to someone. they do this because anyone who pays anything less than that for an enterprise service or product is going to be a demanding, unreasonable, cheapskate, entitled, caustic asshole because they're not used to spending large amounts and the money is probably coming out of their pocket (small business or soho customer). nobody on earth wants to deal with that kind of customer. the phone call is designed to filter people out who get annoyed at needing to talk to someone. if you don't want to talk to anyone, you don't want to spend real money, because people who spend real money want to talk to real someones, usually multiple someones, the more someones the better. nobody wants to deal with the 'in between' customer who is too big for their consumer britches but won't step up to spend money for a real solution where real people on the other end of the line give a shit about their problems.

woobar 12y ago

I am not sure why the experience would be better. You always have the option of paying asking price to the traditional dealer. For some reason people that don't like to negotiate don't want to pay sticker price either.

rifung 12y ago
Even if you do pay the sticker price, you might also be trading your car in, in which case you still have to negotiate how much they will pay you for your car. Not only that but the sticker prices are usually artificially high since they are expecting negotiation with high prices for random add-ons like paint protection or other things nobody asked for.
- woobar 12y ago
  1. If you trade your old car to Tesla, you still have to negotiate it's price. 2. I am not sure how is your opinion about price is related to the experience at the dealership. Sticker prices for all cars are available online, and you can make a decision if the car worth that price well in advance. Once you make that decision nothing is stopping you from having a great car buying experience.
  - rifung 12y ago
    You are totally right, that was dumb of me. Oops

smackfu 12y ago

If you are not price sensitive, it's very easy to have an excellent buying experience.

nosuchthing 12y ago
Yes if you are not concerned with wasting money, it's very easy to not care who takes your money.
- ghaff 12y ago
  I assume his point is that makes car buying stressful for a lot of people is the negotiation thing. If you're willing to dispense with that--which can indeed save money in many circumstances--then it will indeed be less stressful. And, at the margins, that's not even an irrational decision.