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This is great news. People often forget that dealerships often abuse their power and take advantage of consumers. This is especially true since purchasing a car

• jaxbot 12y ago
  On the other hand, this could be an incentive to purchase zero-emission vehicles instead of the alternatives, as the buying experience would be theoretically much better than that of going to a traditional dealer.
  • pavlov 12y ago
    Yes. It's like visiting the websites of two competing software vendors. One has a plain-as-day pricing table with a $100 / month plan and a big blue "Buy now" button. The other company's Pricing page just reads: "Call us for a quote". Given the choice, who would ever go with the company that makes you talk to an enterprise salesman? Somehow car dealers in the U.S. have managed to enshrine this sleazy sales model into state laws, which is certainly an amazing feat of lobbying.
    • morcheeba 12y ago
      "Call us" is if you're lucky. More like drive over to our place and we'll talk about it over stale coffee.
    • trjordan 12y ago
      Pro-tip: if you're calling them, they don't have a $100 / month plan to sell you. There aren't many companies that sell most of their business at $5,000 / month through the website. And for those that do, talking to a sales rep gets you a discount just for picking up the phone. Also, having moved from programming to sales/marketing, I'm a bit more sympathetic towards the "call me" model of selling. There's a lot of companies (like mine) that aren't deliberately withholding information, but instead are training and enabling reps to walk you through a process that can't be navigated with blog posts and product pages alone. We do monitoring, and most of our customers treat our sales reps and pre-sales engineers as free consultants. Nothing magical about it, but talking to a human is valuable for problems like "how to a unify monitoring for my 1,000 servers are 24 teams which runs apps that are a result of 17 acquisitions".
      • pavlov 12y ago
        I imagine the car salesmen also think of buying a car as a "process that can't be navigated with blog posts and product pages alone". Probably your business has a more valid claim to that.
      • mikeash 12y ago
        There are areas where it's reasonable to ask people to call. Where it gets suspicious and tricky is when some businesses state prices up-front, and others ask you to call. When the nature of the thing requires contact, they'll (almost?) all say you should call. For example, plumbers typically won't advertised fixed rates for jobs, and in the rare cases they do that's a warning sign.
      • CamperBob2 12y ago
        There's a lot of companies (like mine) that aren't deliberately withholding information, but instead are training and enabling reps to walk you through a process that can't be navigated with blog posts and product pages alone. I've designed complex electronic devices via product pages (data sheets) and other online information sources, and sold them to the Federal government through GSA procurement. I'm pretty sure I can "navigate" your "process" without wasting time schmoozing your sales guys on the telephone. If you have a competitor who doesn't make me do that, they have a strong advantage over your company, right out of the gate. Just saying.
        • trjordan 12y ago
          I'm not questioning your intelligence! I'm sure you could do it. The more common scenario is that there are a ton of people involved, and it's not easy / worthwhile for the person who kicked this off to convince them all. Where the sales rep provides value there is they can help the you sell. You make an intro, they'll pull together a bunch of materials and demos and other crap to convince your coworkers that it's important. We do have a self-serve path which is about as easy as anybody else's, and our prices are stated up front. Most people can navigate that technically, but the larger organizations almost never take that route because of organizational / political concerns.
      • 12y ago
    • steego 12y ago
      > which is certainly an amazing feat of lobbying. It's like I heard a collective "bitch please" come from the banks, food wholesalers, defense contractors, insurance companies, immigration lawyers, patent attorneys, entertainment industry, telcos, etc. etc.
    • woobar 12y ago
      It's nothing like this. One has a plain-as-day pricing table with a $100 / month plan and a big blue "Buy now" button. The other company's Pricing page has $100/month plan with "Buy now" button and additional text: "Call us if you want to pay less".
    • beachstartup 12y ago
      okay, this old trope again. anyone who has a $100/month plan has it on their website. it's 2015, saas is a thing now. nobody is going to make you call them for $100/month. ~$3k/month or ~$10k lump sum is roughly the threshold for enterprise sales that require you to talk to someone. they do this because anyone who pays anything less than that for an enterprise service or product is going to be a demanding, unreasonable, cheapskate, entitled, caustic asshole because they're not used to spending large amounts and the money is probably coming out of their pocket (small business or soho customer). nobody on earth wants to deal with that kind of customer. the phone call is designed to filter people out who get annoyed at needing to talk to someone. if you don't want to talk to anyone, you don't want to spend real money, because people who spend real money want to talk to real someones, usually multiple someones, the more someones the better. nobody wants to deal with the 'in between' customer who is too big for their consumer britches but won't step up to spend money for a real solution where real people on the other end of the line give a shit about their problems.
  • woobar 12y ago
    I am not sure why the experience would be better. You always have the option of paying asking price to the traditional dealer. For some reason people that don't like to negotiate don't want to pay sticker price either.
    • rifung 12y ago
      Even if you do pay the sticker price, you might also be trading your car in, in which case you still have to negotiate how much they will pay you for your car. Not only that but the sticker prices are usually artificially high since they are expecting negotiation with high prices for random add-ons like paint protection or other things nobody asked for.
      • woobar 12y ago
        1. If you trade your old car to Tesla, you still have to negotiate it's price. 2. I am not sure how is your opinion about price is related to the experience at the dealership. Sticker prices for all cars are available online, and you can make a decision if the car worth that price well in advance. Once you make that decision nothing is stopping you from having a great car buying experience.
        • rifung 12y ago
          You are totally right, that was dumb of me. Oops
  • smackfu 12y ago
    If you are not price sensitive, it's very easy to have an excellent buying experience.
    • nosuchthing 12y ago
      Yes if you are not concerned with wasting money, it's very easy to not care who takes your money.
      • ghaff 12y ago
        I assume his point is that makes car buying stressful for a lot of people is the negotiation thing. If you're willing to dispense with that--which can indeed save money in many circumstances--then it will indeed be less stressful. And, at the margins, that's not even an irrational decision.
• kbenson 12y ago
  >This is great news. It is! > People often forget that dealerships often abuse their power and take advantage of consumers. I doubt many people forget that. Car salesmen have some of the worst reputations of any profession in the US. Purchasing a car can be nerve-wracking. The research I felt compelled to do beforehand felt like I was preparing myself for battle, because I knew the incentives were diametrically opposed.
  • sbochins 12y ago
    I haven't really run into this issue myself. Maybe I'm younger than others, but the two cars I've purchased from dealerships have been done mostly online. The only part that could be nerve-wracking is turning down all the up-selling when finalizing the purchase (warranty for wheels, dents, etc).
    • kbenson 12y ago
      If you are trading in a car, it adds quite a bit to the complexity. It adds another level of where they can move numbers around to make it look like you're getting a better deal than you are. It goes from being just about the cost of the car and APR, to also including the amount you are getting for your trade-in. It's very easy for them to lower some portions of the equation while making up for it in other places, and they are well versed in how to do this as they do it every day. Recently I've had both an extremely bad and an okay experience at car dealerships. In one case, the salesman was so pushy as to repeatedly argue with my as to my decision to not buy a car that day, even when I was up front in my first contact with him saying I was looking that day, not buying, and would be back in a day or two after I'd done my own research on what they presented to me. I left not just angry, but infuriated. A few weeks later I bought a different make of car at a different dealership, and the experience was fairly smooth. Even so, there's a lingering feeling that I may not have paid enough attention and they may have changed the deal slightly on one portion of the deal while I was busy focusing on another part. I have so little trust of that industry at this point that I find it nearly impossible to trust any good experience. I understand that there shouldn't be an expectation that I will automatically get the best deal just by showing up, but there's so much purposeful obfuscation and complexity in the process that it's hard not to walk away confused and angry (even if it takes a while to settle in).
• drzaiusapelord 12y ago
  >People often forget that dealerships often abuse their power and take advantage of consumers. Don't worry we're reminded everytime we interact with them. Nothing says captive monopoly like an auto dealership. I'm buying a new car soon and am dreading the experience. I'm leaning towards a used car that's still on warranty because of how bad the dealership experience is and the various ways they try to scam you (hidden costs, poor financing, insulting your credit score to hike interest, trade-in scams, MSRP games, overpriced dealer add-ons, etc). I watched as a salesman did a "pull the keys" at a Jeep dealership. It was so obviously fake. Another salesman just walked up, took the keys from my salesman, and said, "We have others interested in this game" to pressure me. I saw that guy through the glass walls. He didn't have a customer. He just pocketed them and looked at once once in a while in anticipation. Not to mention how they treat women like shit. The things my wife puts up at the dealership is inexcusable. They tried to get her to pay, out of pocket, a engine rebuild for a car on warranty. I pretty much had to yell at them to honor it and call my lawyer. I'm pretty critical of Tesla, but I do think their no-haggle Saturn-like policy is excellent. If Tesla survives long enough to sell an affordable electric with great range, its a no-brainer buy for me.
  • hnnewguy 12y ago
    >I'm buying a new car soon and am dreading the experience I've bought multiple cars in my life. I don't understand this in the slightest. Every experience I've had has been only slightly more involved than purchasing anything else, as it should be for the cost. The dealership world is hyper-competitive. Know the value of the car you want, and what you're willing to pay. Let them know that. If they can't do it, go elsewhere. Don't pay for anything you didn't ask for. Like practically every other consumer experience, the buyer has all the power. You're the one signing the cheque. They want your business. >poor financing Most companies offer 0% financing. Where else can you get that?
    • ethbro 12y ago
      A few more tips: Like anything else, have alternative financing lined up before you start that conversation. This reduces the financing issue to one question: "Can you beat this rate?" Secondly, I'd highly recommend going through internet/fleet sales at any dealership. Typically, these people are paid primarily in total-volume and less in sales-price-over-invoice, which gives them a great incentive to do the deal on your terms (as long as you don't abuse their time). The added bonus is these people also tend to be just fine negotiating the preliminaries over more convenient email. In contrast, every dollar you negotiate the lot salesman down is generally a dollar out of his pocket.
• imh 12y ago
  >People often forget that dealerships often abuse their power and take advantage of consumers. Aren't corporations selling directly to consumers known for doing the same?
• shit_parade 12y ago
  Funny how they way they abused their power was by getting a law passed.
• logn 12y ago
  > future legislation undoing the protection granted to dealerships Franchises were purchased with the understanding that they wouldn't compete with manufacturers. I think the correct law would be to grandfather the old manufacturers in but let new ones sell direct. I guess a zero-emissions exception makes sense to eventually phase out dealerships and immediately allow Tesla. Also I'm no so anti-dealership. It's not the easiest business and most of them have low margins.