4 ms·

The ban was created after Tesla started selling, and now it only lifted the ban for zero emission vehicles as far as I can tell (didn't read the whole bill). If

by caw 12y ago

The ban was created after Tesla started selling, and now it only lifted the ban for zero emission vehicles as far as I can tell (didn't read the whole bill). If Ford or GM wanted to sell direct, they couldn't. In the more generic case, states have these laws on the books to protect the local franchise dealers. These people buy cars from a particular manufacturer, usually multiple brands. In order to protect these dealers from the perceived threat that an automaker could come in and sell direct (thus undercutting their business), laws were enacted to require a franchise to sell vehicles. Thus Ford couldn't come in and sell vehicles unless they created their own franchise, which would raise their costs to be on par with the independent franchises. I think the justification for the protection is the local jobs and businesses.

edvinbesic 12y ago
"The ban was created after Tesla started selling, and now it only lifted the ban for zero emission vehicles as far as I can tell (didn't read the whole bill). If Ford or GM wanted to sell direct, they couldn't." Which is a damn shame. When shopping for a car every manufacturer currently has a 'build your own' tool online where you can build you car to spec and you get a rough estimate. However, in my experience, this estimate is never honored by dealers. The last car I purchased had an item on the sticker price called 'Dealer improvements' that was $6000, and after talking to the dealer he would "cut me a break and not charge me anything" so I would be getting the car for $6000 less right off the bat. When I inquired as to what exactly did they improve he refused to answer in detail. I'm sure my experiences are not unique. I would love to just press an Order button at the end of the vehicle builder and have it delivered to my door or somewhere close to my home.
- ghaff 12y ago
  Sounds like you need to go to different dealers. I'm no fan of the dealer experience but I have gotten prices and costs online and certainly never had a dealer try to tack on $6K. Maybe it was some particularly in-demand model. At least one dealer I've bought a car from has been "no haggle"; the price on the sticker was the price. The problem with getting rid of dealers is that most people will still want somewhere to test drive, someone local to handle paperwork, and there would need to be a service network in any case. Tesla will still have dealers. They'll just be owned by the company. And the experience will doubtless be comparable to existing high-end car dealers.
- hvidgaard 12y ago
  It's a double edged sword. The manufacturer will be happy if he sell a car. The dealer needs to first buy the car from the manufacturer and then sell it for a profit. Thus the manufacturer have a competetive advantage, that they could use to remove all competition, and then charge whatever the fuck they want. I just don't think this blanket ban is the way forward, but rather some regulation/comparison about what a store (dealer or manufacture owned) actually pays for cars, so you can clearly see if manufacture owned stores are not getting unfair advantage. I suppose that competition between manufacturs would be the driving force in that case. It's certainly possible. My own experience was something along the lines of this: Figure out what the car cost on Fords webpage, go to a dealer, get a quote, negotiate a little. Repeat with 2 other dealers and see what you get, and let it be known what offer you have so far (they usually demand some proof, so you better be telling the truth). I ended up paying 15% less than the standard quoted price, which could have been better, but I wanted to buy from a dealer with a great reputation.
  - devicenull 12y ago
    > It's a double edged sword. The manufacturer will be happy if he sell a car. The dealer needs to first buy the car from the manufacturer and then sell it for a profit. Thus the manufacturer have a competetive advantage, that they could use to remove all competition, and then charge whatever the fuck they want. I don't think that's it... having dealerships does nothing to stop the manufacturer from changing prices to whatever they want.
- bmelton 12y ago
  > this estimate is never honored by dealers. The "build your car" tools on the websites always represent the "as low as" price. It assumes all possible rebates, many of which you aren't eligible for. If you were a military veteran who recently graduated college with great credit and an account at a credit union with a pre-existing arrangement with that dealership, and are also trading in a same-brand car while trying to purchase a model with flagging sales, then tada, you can easily get the "as advertised" price. Edit: this is incorrect. See replies.
  - hnnewguy 12y ago
    >The "build your car" tools on the websites always represent the "as low as" price. Wrong. The "build your car" tool is generally the MSRP, since it's on the manufacturers site, which will be substantially higher than price you'll have to pay at the dealer.
    - bmelton 12y ago
      Y'know what? You're absolutely right. That's what I get for answering before my first cup of coffee. I had somehow mentally conflated the "browse our cars on the lot" page that many dealerships have with the "build your car on our site" page. Thanks for the correction.
- hnnewguy 12y ago
  >When I inquired as to what exactly did they improve he refused to answer in detail. So why didn't you go elsewhere? His living depends on the commission he earns from selling you the car. If you feel the people are dishonest, why do business with them?
spiralpolitik 12y ago
Car dealerships are also generally small family owned businesses. The kind that plays well in red states as being the heart of the American economy of self made people. They must protected at all costs from competition, ideas, and regulation that could put them out of business. See Obamacare, eVerify, FMLA etc.
- malchow 12y ago
  As far as I know, car dealers tend to be large empires built over the years through roll-ups; and they tend to ally themselves with the party favoring big government.[1] [1] https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1454&dat=20010301&id=Ca8sAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6x4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=4016,48793&hl=en https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1454&dat=20010301&id=...

by caw 12y ago

edvinbesic 12y ago

"The ban was created after Tesla started selling, and now it only lifted the ban for zero emission vehicles as far as I can tell (didn't read the whole bill). If Ford or GM wanted to sell direct, they couldn't." Which is a damn shame. When shopping for a car every manufacturer currently has a 'build your own' tool online where you can build you car to spec and you get a rough estimate. However, in my experience, this estimate is never honored by dealers. The last car I purchased had an item on the sticker price called 'Dealer improvements' that was $6000, and after talking to the dealer he would "cut me a break and not charge me anything" so I would be getting the car for $6000 less right off the bat. When I inquired as to what exactly did they improve he refused to answer in detail. I'm sure my experiences are not unique. I would love to just press an Order button at the end of the vehicle builder and have it delivered to my door or somewhere close to my home.

ghaff 12y ago
Sounds like you need to go to different dealers. I'm no fan of the dealer experience but I have gotten prices and costs online and certainly never had a dealer try to tack on $6K. Maybe it was some particularly in-demand model. At least one dealer I've bought a car from has been "no haggle"; the price on the sticker was the price. The problem with getting rid of dealers is that most people will still want somewhere to test drive, someone local to handle paperwork, and there would need to be a service network in any case. Tesla will still have dealers. They'll just be owned by the company. And the experience will doubtless be comparable to existing high-end car dealers.
hvidgaard 12y ago
It's a double edged sword. The manufacturer will be happy if he sell a car. The dealer needs to first buy the car from the manufacturer and then sell it for a profit. Thus the manufacturer have a competetive advantage, that they could use to remove all competition, and then charge whatever the fuck they want. I just don't think this blanket ban is the way forward, but rather some regulation/comparison about what a store (dealer or manufacture owned) actually pays for cars, so you can clearly see if manufacture owned stores are not getting unfair advantage. I suppose that competition between manufacturs would be the driving force in that case. It's certainly possible. My own experience was something along the lines of this: Figure out what the car cost on Fords webpage, go to a dealer, get a quote, negotiate a little. Repeat with 2 other dealers and see what you get, and let it be known what offer you have so far (they usually demand some proof, so you better be telling the truth). I ended up paying 15% less than the standard quoted price, which could have been better, but I wanted to buy from a dealer with a great reputation.
- devicenull 12y ago
  > It's a double edged sword. The manufacturer will be happy if he sell a car. The dealer needs to first buy the car from the manufacturer and then sell it for a profit. Thus the manufacturer have a competetive advantage, that they could use to remove all competition, and then charge whatever the fuck they want. I don't think that's it... having dealerships does nothing to stop the manufacturer from changing prices to whatever they want.
bmelton 12y ago
> this estimate is never honored by dealers. The "build your car" tools on the websites always represent the "as low as" price. It assumes all possible rebates, many of which you aren't eligible for. If you were a military veteran who recently graduated college with great credit and an account at a credit union with a pre-existing arrangement with that dealership, and are also trading in a same-brand car while trying to purchase a model with flagging sales, then tada, you can easily get the "as advertised" price. Edit: this is incorrect. See replies.
- hnnewguy 12y ago
  >The "build your car" tools on the websites always represent the "as low as" price. Wrong. The "build your car" tool is generally the MSRP, since it's on the manufacturers site, which will be substantially higher than price you'll have to pay at the dealer.
  - bmelton 12y ago
    Y'know what? You're absolutely right. That's what I get for answering before my first cup of coffee. I had somehow mentally conflated the "browse our cars on the lot" page that many dealerships have with the "build your car on our site" page. Thanks for the correction.
hnnewguy 12y ago
>When I inquired as to what exactly did they improve he refused to answer in detail. So why didn't you go elsewhere? His living depends on the commission he earns from selling you the car. If you feel the people are dishonest, why do business with them?

spiralpolitik 12y ago

Car dealerships are also generally small family owned businesses. The kind that plays well in red states as being the heart of the American economy of self made people. They must protected at all costs from competition, ideas, and regulation that could put them out of business. See Obamacare, eVerify, FMLA etc.

malchow 12y ago
As far as I know, car dealers tend to be large empires built over the years through roll-ups; and they tend to ally themselves with the party favoring big government.[1] [1] https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1454&dat=20010301&id=Ca8sAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6x4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=4016,48793&hl=en https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1454&dat=20010301&id=...