4 ms·

You get the thrill of drivers who are uninsured and poorly paid (once you factor in the capital costs of the vehicle and the cost of vehicle maintenance). Welco

You get the thrill of drivers who are uninsured and poorly paid (once you factor in the capital costs of the vehicle and the cost of vehicle maintenance). Welcome to the libertarian paradise.

ma2rten 12y ago
I think they are actually pretty well paid, even factoring those things in. Do you have a source?
- felixgallo 12y ago
  http://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/what-uber-drivers-really-make-according-to-their-pay-stubs http://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/what-uber-drivers-real...
reasonish 12y ago
Not to mention the danger of them possibly being sex offenders, rapists, murderers. Who knows!
- strictnein 12y ago
  No cab driver has ever been any of those in the history of cabs. [0] http://nypost.com/2014/02/09/cabbies-who-kill-or-maim-in-nyc-keep-licenses-return-to-work/ http://nypost.com/2014/02/09/cabbies-who-kill-or-maim-in-nyc... [1] http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/14/nyc-cab-driver-on-loose-after-killing-drunk-man-police-and-witnesses-say/ http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/14/nyc-cab-driver-on-loose... [2] http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=132684 http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=132684
  - reasonish 12y ago
    I didn't say that. Regulation and vetting is there for a reason. It helps minimise the risks of several things. But it costs money.
strictnein 12y ago
How is $20-$30 an hour (based on the link you provided) poorly paid for a part time job? Maybe I'm missing something? Sounds like a pretty decent rate. And they're not uninsured, they're self insured, which is, again, shown in that article you linked.
billions 12y ago
Uber provides, faster, safer, cheaper, more comfortable service than any government run taxi service. Without a driver rating system, I remember getting frequently being asked to leave the taxi when requesting short distance rides. Taxis would often drive at dangerous speeds to acquire more customers. Taxis were typically driven by foreigners which could not find other jobs. If Uber is as low paying as you describe, why is it that we get more intelligent drivers? Surely they are intelligent enough to quit if the pay is too low. Uber users like myself vote on each ride with their credit cards to keep these services going. And with that, it means that the day Uber does something poorly, we have the freedom to immediately switch to a competitor.
- detaro 12y ago
  > Without a driver rating system, I remember getting frequently being asked to leave the taxi when requesting short distance rides. In Germany? Not saying that it doesn't happen, but it is illegal. (Which often is an important argument to why Taxis are protected against competition, since they are forced to provide services that are not always profitable)
  - adyus 12y ago
    What's illegal and what's enforceable are two different things, particularly in Eastern Europe. Uber just launched in Romania and it's having a hard time getting off the ground. I asked a taxi driver why he wouldn't join. He said he'd be scared for his safety from other taxi drivers. Anecdotally, getting a cab from a major hub (airport, train or bus station) in Bucharest, without calling dispatch, entails a fixed price and the meter turned off. Illegal? Surely. The main advantage of western countries, culminating in the U.S., is that laws are enforced regularly and predictably, most of the time. Germany is doing just that. They're old laws, sure, but they must be enforced until they get a change to revise them.
- qubitcoder 12y ago
  Keep in mind that the taxi situation is very different in Germany. As an American who lived and worked in Germany for a couple years, the taxi service was generally fantastic. Professional and courteous drivers, usually an impeccably maintained black Mercedes-Benzes, and a digital readout of the current fare on the rear-view mirror. And this was 7 years ago. Upon landing in Atlanta, I'd regularly step into a smelly, old van--with a driver who spoke little English and zero knowledge of the city, requiring GPS entry before departing--only to careen haphazardly down the highway. The contrast was rather stark. As a driving enthusiast, driving in German was a pleasure (minus the traffic). Being able to cruise at 140 mph on unrestricted sections en route to Darmstadt, and feel safe doing so, was wonderful. Then again, obtaining a driver's license in Germany is substantially more difficult, costly, and time-consuming. Vehicle maintenance requirements are likewise more stringent (e.g. mandatory winter tires). Given the different driving environment, this ruling is not surprising in light of Uber's lackadaisical approach (I say that as a fan of Uber's service in the US, not their behavior). Whereas in much of the US, you can cruise around a parking lot with an instructor, and walk away with a drivers license. It's like the wild west by comparison. Uber is faster, safer, and cheaper than the abysmal service in most US cities; but this isn't universally true. The situation in Western Europe is mostly superior to what you'd find in the US; ditto for Japan and South Korea. EDIT: Clarity.
ad_hominem 12y ago
> poorly paid (once you factor in the capital costs of the vehicle and the cost of vehicle maintenance) I don't happen to know how much Uber drivers get paid, but I've seen comments saying that a lot of people drive Uber as a part-time thing with a car they already own to supplement their income. I think that's a more likely scenario than someone going out and buying a car specifically to drive for Uber full-time. Also reminds me of arguments about raising minimum wage because every job in existence should pay a living wage, ignoring circumstances of why people are working various jobs (thinking particularly about teenagers and retired people).

You get the thrill of drivers who are uninsured and poorly paid (once you factor in the capital costs of the vehicle and the cost of vehicle maintenance). Welcome to the libertarian paradise.

ma2rten 12y ago

I think they are actually pretty well paid, even factoring those things in. Do you have a source?

felixgallo 12y ago
http://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/what-uber-drivers-really-make-according-to-their-pay-stubs http://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/what-uber-drivers-real...

reasonish 12y ago

Not to mention the danger of them possibly being sex offenders, rapists, murderers. Who knows!

strictnein 12y ago
No cab driver has ever been any of those in the history of cabs. [0] http://nypost.com/2014/02/09/cabbies-who-kill-or-maim-in-nyc-keep-licenses-return-to-work/ http://nypost.com/2014/02/09/cabbies-who-kill-or-maim-in-nyc... [1] http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/14/nyc-cab-driver-on-loose-after-killing-drunk-man-police-and-witnesses-say/ http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/14/nyc-cab-driver-on-loose... [2] http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=132684 http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=132684
- reasonish 12y ago
  I didn't say that. Regulation and vetting is there for a reason. It helps minimise the risks of several things. But it costs money.

strictnein 12y ago

How is $20-$30 an hour (based on the link you provided) poorly paid for a part time job? Maybe I'm missing something? Sounds like a pretty decent rate. And they're not uninsured, they're self insured, which is, again, shown in that article you linked.

billions 12y ago

Uber provides, faster, safer, cheaper, more comfortable service than any government run taxi service. Without a driver rating system, I remember getting frequently being asked to leave the taxi when requesting short distance rides. Taxis would often drive at dangerous speeds to acquire more customers. Taxis were typically driven by foreigners which could not find other jobs. If Uber is as low paying as you describe, why is it that we get more intelligent drivers? Surely they are intelligent enough to quit if the pay is too low. Uber users like myself vote on each ride with their credit cards to keep these services going. And with that, it means that the day Uber does something poorly, we have the freedom to immediately switch to a competitor.

detaro 12y ago
> Without a driver rating system, I remember getting frequently being asked to leave the taxi when requesting short distance rides. In Germany? Not saying that it doesn't happen, but it is illegal. (Which often is an important argument to why Taxis are protected against competition, since they are forced to provide services that are not always profitable)
- adyus 12y ago
  What's illegal and what's enforceable are two different things, particularly in Eastern Europe. Uber just launched in Romania and it's having a hard time getting off the ground. I asked a taxi driver why he wouldn't join. He said he'd be scared for his safety from other taxi drivers. Anecdotally, getting a cab from a major hub (airport, train or bus station) in Bucharest, without calling dispatch, entails a fixed price and the meter turned off. Illegal? Surely. The main advantage of western countries, culminating in the U.S., is that laws are enforced regularly and predictably, most of the time. Germany is doing just that. They're old laws, sure, but they must be enforced until they get a change to revise them.
qubitcoder 12y ago
Keep in mind that the taxi situation is very different in Germany. As an American who lived and worked in Germany for a couple years, the taxi service was generally fantastic. Professional and courteous drivers, usually an impeccably maintained black Mercedes-Benzes, and a digital readout of the current fare on the rear-view mirror. And this was 7 years ago. Upon landing in Atlanta, I'd regularly step into a smelly, old van--with a driver who spoke little English and zero knowledge of the city, requiring GPS entry before departing--only to careen haphazardly down the highway. The contrast was rather stark. As a driving enthusiast, driving in German was a pleasure (minus the traffic). Being able to cruise at 140 mph on unrestricted sections en route to Darmstadt, and feel safe doing so, was wonderful. Then again, obtaining a driver's license in Germany is substantially more difficult, costly, and time-consuming. Vehicle maintenance requirements are likewise more stringent (e.g. mandatory winter tires). Given the different driving environment, this ruling is not surprising in light of Uber's lackadaisical approach (I say that as a fan of Uber's service in the US, not their behavior). Whereas in much of the US, you can cruise around a parking lot with an instructor, and walk away with a drivers license. It's like the wild west by comparison. Uber is faster, safer, and cheaper than the abysmal service in most US cities; but this isn't universally true. The situation in Western Europe is mostly superior to what you'd find in the US; ditto for Japan and South Korea. EDIT: Clarity.

ad_hominem 12y ago

> poorly paid (once you factor in the capital costs of the vehicle and the cost of vehicle maintenance) I don't happen to know how much Uber drivers get paid, but I've seen comments saying that a lot of people drive Uber as a part-time thing with a car they already own to supplement their income. I think that's a more likely scenario than someone going out and buying a car specifically to drive for Uber full-time. Also reminds me of arguments about raising minimum wage because every job in existence should pay a living wage, ignoring circumstances of why people are working various jobs (thinking particularly about teenagers and retired people).