7 ms·

I think that Uber has done tremendous amounts to modernizing the taxi industry, and maybe even for breaking down some taxi monopolies. These are both good thing

by MAGZine 12y ago

I think that Uber has done tremendous amounts to modernizing the taxi industry, and maybe even for breaking down some taxi monopolies. These are both good things. I can't comment on UberX, but regular Uber should absolutely be subject to regular taxi/safety/liability clauses. Which isn't to say that those clauses couldn't be modernized, but IS to say that it should also not be a surprise when a company gets a nationwide ban for violating them. Regular Uber is exactly a taxi system, with a state-of-the-art automated dispatch and billing system.

DasIch 12y ago
I don't see how it has done so at all, at least in Germany. Precisely because the industry is so highly regulated I don't see how Uber offers anything that I don't get with a regular taxi.
- anon1385 12y ago
  You get the thrill of drivers who are uninsured and poorly paid (once you factor in the capital costs of the vehicle and the cost of vehicle maintenance). Welcome to the libertarian paradise.
  - ma2rten 12y ago
    I think they are actually pretty well paid, even factoring those things in. Do you have a source?
    - felixgallo 12y ago
      http://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/what-uber-drivers-really-make-according-to-their-pay-stubs http://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/what-uber-drivers-real...
  - reasonish 12y ago
    Not to mention the danger of them possibly being sex offenders, rapists, murderers. Who knows!
    - strictnein 12y ago
      No cab driver has ever been any of those in the history of cabs. [0] http://nypost.com/2014/02/09/cabbies-who-kill-or-maim-in-nyc-keep-licenses-return-to-work/ http://nypost.com/2014/02/09/cabbies-who-kill-or-maim-in-nyc... [1] http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/14/nyc-cab-driver-on-loose-after-killing-drunk-man-police-and-witnesses-say/ http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/14/nyc-cab-driver-on-loose... [2] http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=132684 http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=132684
      - reasonish 12y ago
        I didn't say that. Regulation and vetting is there for a reason. It helps minimise the risks of several things. But it costs money.
  - strictnein 12y ago
    How is $20-$30 an hour (based on the link you provided) poorly paid for a part time job? Maybe I'm missing something? Sounds like a pretty decent rate. And they're not uninsured, they're self insured, which is, again, shown in that article you linked.
  - billions 12y ago
    Uber provides, faster, safer, cheaper, more comfortable service than any government run taxi service. Without a driver rating system, I remember getting frequently being asked to leave the taxi when requesting short distance rides. Taxis would often drive at dangerous speeds to acquire more customers. Taxis were typically driven by foreigners which could not find other jobs. If Uber is as low paying as you describe, why is it that we get more intelligent drivers? Surely they are intelligent enough to quit if the pay is too low. Uber users like myself vote on each ride with their credit cards to keep these services going. And with that, it means that the day Uber does something poorly, we have the freedom to immediately switch to a competitor.
    - detaro 12y ago
      > Without a driver rating system, I remember getting frequently being asked to leave the taxi when requesting short distance rides. In Germany? Not saying that it doesn't happen, but it is illegal. (Which often is an important argument to why Taxis are protected against competition, since they are forced to provide services that are not always profitable)
      - adyus 12y ago
        What's illegal and what's enforceable are two different things, particularly in Eastern Europe. Uber just launched in Romania and it's having a hard time getting off the ground. I asked a taxi driver why he wouldn't join. He said he'd be scared for his safety from other taxi drivers. Anecdotally, getting a cab from a major hub (airport, train or bus station) in Bucharest, without calling dispatch, entails a fixed price and the meter turned off. Illegal? Surely. The main advantage of western countries, culminating in the U.S., is that laws are enforced regularly and predictably, most of the time. Germany is doing just that. They're old laws, sure, but they must be enforced until they get a change to revise them.
    - qubitcoder 12y ago
      Keep in mind that the taxi situation is very different in Germany. As an American who lived and worked in Germany for a couple years, the taxi service was generally fantastic. Professional and courteous drivers, usually an impeccably maintained black Mercedes-Benzes, and a digital readout of the current fare on the rear-view mirror. And this was 7 years ago. Upon landing in Atlanta, I'd regularly step into a smelly, old van--with a driver who spoke little English and zero knowledge of the city, requiring GPS entry before departing--only to careen haphazardly down the highway. The contrast was rather stark. As a driving enthusiast, driving in German was a pleasure (minus the traffic). Being able to cruise at 140 mph on unrestricted sections en route to Darmstadt, and feel safe doing so, was wonderful. Then again, obtaining a driver's license in Germany is substantially more difficult, costly, and time-consuming. Vehicle maintenance requirements are likewise more stringent (e.g. mandatory winter tires). Given the different driving environment, this ruling is not surprising in light of Uber's lackadaisical approach (I say that as a fan of Uber's service in the US, not their behavior). Whereas in much of the US, you can cruise around a parking lot with an instructor, and walk away with a drivers license. It's like the wild west by comparison. Uber is faster, safer, and cheaper than the abysmal service in most US cities; but this isn't universally true. The situation in Western Europe is mostly superior to what you'd find in the US; ditto for Japan and South Korea. EDIT: Clarity.
  - ad_hominem 12y ago
    > poorly paid (once you factor in the capital costs of the vehicle and the cost of vehicle maintenance) I don't happen to know how much Uber drivers get paid, but I've seen comments saying that a lot of people drive Uber as a part-time thing with a car they already own to supplement their income. I think that's a more likely scenario than someone going out and buying a car specifically to drive for Uber full-time. Also reminds me of arguments about raising minimum wage because every job in existence should pay a living wage, ignoring circumstances of why people are working various jobs (thinking particularly about teenagers and retired people).
- wyager 12y ago
  > Precisely because the industry is so highly regulated I don't see how Uber offers anything that I don't get with a regular taxi. This seems to be a common argument against private competition to government-managed services. "Well, I don't see how a private company could do this better than the government." And yet, Uber is so obviously superior to any regulated taxi service.
  - detaro 12y ago
    What is "obviously superior" about Uber?
    - Karunamon 12y ago
      * A median 2 minute pickup time * Knowing where your driver is and how close, who they are, what they're driving, and what their ratings are before you even climb in. * Payment is all handled on the back end. You call the cab and don't have to worry about it. Tips are not a thing. * Bad ratings cause drivers to get kicked out of the program - and since they're automatically prompted for as soon as you get out of the car, they're going to be done more often (and therefore be more accurate) than a complaint-based model. It solves the problem of "Well, this driver was surly and slow, but I've got better things to do than go on the taxi commission's website and fill out a complaint form" * MUCH cheaper rates than taxis, though that no doubt varies by area. I know in SF, it only cost me $15 to get from SFO to the wharf. (About an hour drive, IIRC) Equivalent shuttle: $34-50. I priced it. * Random everypeople drivers, rather than career folks. I've met some pretty interesting people via Uber. * Drivers can't arrive and then refuse to drive you - they know where they're going when the app pings them. If they don't want to drive you, one of the others surely will. Drivers are penalized for dropping rides. None of this is specific to Germany, the topic of the story notwithstanding. These rideshare outfits face the same government interference in every single country they operate in. After tooling around California for about a week or so, I am 100% on board with these guys. Uber was consistently awesome and less expensive, taxis were consistently more annoying and more expensive.
      - detaro 12y ago
- ma2rten 12y ago
  The situation is a little bit different in the US than in Germany. In the US (depending on the city) taxis are often difficult to find, overpriced, rude and/or uncomfortable.
  - TheHippo 12y ago
    So except for the uncomfortable basically the same in Germany.
buyx 12y ago
I can't comment on UberX, but regular Uber should absolutely be subject to regular taxi/safety/liability clauses Do you mean uberPOP? AFAIK, UberX is like regular Uber, but with smaller cars and lower fares.
- fredoliveira 12y ago
  UberPop and UberX are similar services.
- kitcar 12y ago
  in Canada, UberX is 100% non-licensed taxis (i.e. just normal people with their personally owned cars picking up passengers using Uber)

by MAGZine 12y ago

DasIch 12y ago

I don't see how it has done so at all, at least in Germany. Precisely because the industry is so highly regulated I don't see how Uber offers anything that I don't get with a regular taxi.

anon1385 12y ago
You get the thrill of drivers who are uninsured and poorly paid (once you factor in the capital costs of the vehicle and the cost of vehicle maintenance). Welcome to the libertarian paradise.
- ma2rten 12y ago
  I think they are actually pretty well paid, even factoring those things in. Do you have a source?
  - felixgallo 12y ago
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/what-uber-drivers-really-make-according-to-their-pay-stubs http://www.buzzfeed.com/johanabhuiyan/what-uber-drivers-real...
- reasonish 12y ago
  Not to mention the danger of them possibly being sex offenders, rapists, murderers. Who knows!
  - strictnein 12y ago
    No cab driver has ever been any of those in the history of cabs. [0] http://nypost.com/2014/02/09/cabbies-who-kill-or-maim-in-nyc-keep-licenses-return-to-work/ http://nypost.com/2014/02/09/cabbies-who-kill-or-maim-in-nyc... [1] http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/14/nyc-cab-driver-on-loose-after-killing-drunk-man-police-and-witnesses-say/ http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/14/nyc-cab-driver-on-loose... [2] http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=132684 http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=132684
    - reasonish 12y ago
      I didn't say that. Regulation and vetting is there for a reason. It helps minimise the risks of several things. But it costs money.
- strictnein 12y ago
  How is $20-$30 an hour (based on the link you provided) poorly paid for a part time job? Maybe I'm missing something? Sounds like a pretty decent rate. And they're not uninsured, they're self insured, which is, again, shown in that article you linked.
- billions 12y ago
  Uber provides, faster, safer, cheaper, more comfortable service than any government run taxi service. Without a driver rating system, I remember getting frequently being asked to leave the taxi when requesting short distance rides. Taxis would often drive at dangerous speeds to acquire more customers. Taxis were typically driven by foreigners which could not find other jobs. If Uber is as low paying as you describe, why is it that we get more intelligent drivers? Surely they are intelligent enough to quit if the pay is too low. Uber users like myself vote on each ride with their credit cards to keep these services going. And with that, it means that the day Uber does something poorly, we have the freedom to immediately switch to a competitor.
  - detaro 12y ago
    > Without a driver rating system, I remember getting frequently being asked to leave the taxi when requesting short distance rides. In Germany? Not saying that it doesn't happen, but it is illegal. (Which often is an important argument to why Taxis are protected against competition, since they are forced to provide services that are not always profitable)
    - adyus 12y ago
      What's illegal and what's enforceable are two different things, particularly in Eastern Europe. Uber just launched in Romania and it's having a hard time getting off the ground. I asked a taxi driver why he wouldn't join. He said he'd be scared for his safety from other taxi drivers. Anecdotally, getting a cab from a major hub (airport, train or bus station) in Bucharest, without calling dispatch, entails a fixed price and the meter turned off. Illegal? Surely. The main advantage of western countries, culminating in the U.S., is that laws are enforced regularly and predictably, most of the time. Germany is doing just that. They're old laws, sure, but they must be enforced until they get a change to revise them.
  - qubitcoder 12y ago
    Keep in mind that the taxi situation is very different in Germany. As an American who lived and worked in Germany for a couple years, the taxi service was generally fantastic. Professional and courteous drivers, usually an impeccably maintained black Mercedes-Benzes, and a digital readout of the current fare on the rear-view mirror. And this was 7 years ago. Upon landing in Atlanta, I'd regularly step into a smelly, old van--with a driver who spoke little English and zero knowledge of the city, requiring GPS entry before departing--only to careen haphazardly down the highway. The contrast was rather stark. As a driving enthusiast, driving in German was a pleasure (minus the traffic). Being able to cruise at 140 mph on unrestricted sections en route to Darmstadt, and feel safe doing so, was wonderful. Then again, obtaining a driver's license in Germany is substantially more difficult, costly, and time-consuming. Vehicle maintenance requirements are likewise more stringent (e.g. mandatory winter tires). Given the different driving environment, this ruling is not surprising in light of Uber's lackadaisical approach (I say that as a fan of Uber's service in the US, not their behavior). Whereas in much of the US, you can cruise around a parking lot with an instructor, and walk away with a drivers license. It's like the wild west by comparison. Uber is faster, safer, and cheaper than the abysmal service in most US cities; but this isn't universally true. The situation in Western Europe is mostly superior to what you'd find in the US; ditto for Japan and South Korea. EDIT: Clarity.
- ad_hominem 12y ago
  > poorly paid (once you factor in the capital costs of the vehicle and the cost of vehicle maintenance) I don't happen to know how much Uber drivers get paid, but I've seen comments saying that a lot of people drive Uber as a part-time thing with a car they already own to supplement their income. I think that's a more likely scenario than someone going out and buying a car specifically to drive for Uber full-time. Also reminds me of arguments about raising minimum wage because every job in existence should pay a living wage, ignoring circumstances of why people are working various jobs (thinking particularly about teenagers and retired people).
wyager 12y ago
> Precisely because the industry is so highly regulated I don't see how Uber offers anything that I don't get with a regular taxi. This seems to be a common argument against private competition to government-managed services. "Well, I don't see how a private company could do this better than the government." And yet, Uber is so obviously superior to any regulated taxi service.
- detaro 12y ago
  What is "obviously superior" about Uber?
  - Karunamon 12y ago
    * A median 2 minute pickup time * Knowing where your driver is and how close, who they are, what they're driving, and what their ratings are before you even climb in. * Payment is all handled on the back end. You call the cab and don't have to worry about it. Tips are not a thing. * Bad ratings cause drivers to get kicked out of the program - and since they're automatically prompted for as soon as you get out of the car, they're going to be done more often (and therefore be more accurate) than a complaint-based model. It solves the problem of "Well, this driver was surly and slow, but I've got better things to do than go on the taxi commission's website and fill out a complaint form" * MUCH cheaper rates than taxis, though that no doubt varies by area. I know in SF, it only cost me $15 to get from SFO to the wharf. (About an hour drive, IIRC) Equivalent shuttle: $34-50. I priced it. * Random everypeople drivers, rather than career folks. I've met some pretty interesting people via Uber. * Drivers can't arrive and then refuse to drive you - they know where they're going when the app pings them. If they don't want to drive you, one of the others surely will. Drivers are penalized for dropping rides. None of this is specific to Germany, the topic of the story notwithstanding. These rideshare outfits face the same government interference in every single country they operate in. After tooling around California for about a week or so, I am 100% on board with these guys. Uber was consistently awesome and less expensive, taxis were consistently more annoying and more expensive.
    - detaro 12y ago
ma2rten 12y ago
The situation is a little bit different in the US than in Germany. In the US (depending on the city) taxis are often difficult to find, overpriced, rude and/or uncomfortable.
- TheHippo 12y ago
  So except for the uncomfortable basically the same in Germany.

buyx 12y ago

I can't comment on UberX, but regular Uber should absolutely be subject to regular taxi/safety/liability clauses Do you mean uberPOP? AFAIK, UberX is like regular Uber, but with smaller cars and lower fares.

fredoliveira 12y ago
UberPop and UberX are similar services.
kitcar 12y ago
in Canada, UberX is 100% non-licensed taxis (i.e. just normal people with their personally owned cars picking up passengers using Uber)