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The NSA Is Going to Love These USB-C Charging Cables

12 points by scribu 12y ago

theandrewbailey 12y ago
> But that convenience doesn't come without a cost; our computers will be more vulnerable than ever to malware attacks, from hackers and surveillance agencies alike. Cut the crap. USB is just as vulnerable as it always was. The only thing that changed with USB-C was practicality and convenience.
- wlesieutre 12y ago
  The author knows USB is just as vulnerable as it always was. The thing that changed with USB-C is that you can't avoid plugging in USB devices. If you borrow someone's power cord, you're plugging an unknown USB device into your computer. Dropping a malicious USB drive in the parking lot was the traditional attack vector for USB devices, which obviously won't work as well with a power cord (a power cord sitting in the parking lot would be a bit suspicious), but it opens up new targeted attack vectors. Someone could easily swap out your power cord with a malicious one when you aren't looking, which might wait for your computer to be inactive, then kick into "fake keyboard mode" to open up a terminal, download whatever executable off of the internet, and run it (with your user privileges). It won't own the whole computer without authentication, but it'll own all of the data in your home folder.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    >The thing that changed with USB-C is that you can't avoid plugging in USB devices. If you borrow someone's power cord, you're plugging an unknown USB device into your computer. You know, they could easily add a mode for it, so it only gets power and no data.
    - wlesieutre 12y ago
      Definitely could be, but I'm not holding my breath for any of the major OSes to implement that. You'd need a popup window for every new keyboard to say "This is a keyboard! Is it allowed to be a keyboard?" Which works for a laptop because you always have a keyboard/trackpackpad built in, but could be a problem on a desktop if you can't approve a keyboard/mouse without already having one connected and approved. Do desktops ever include accelerometers? Maybe you could pick it up and shake it to allow a new keyboard. On the other hand, as I understand it, USB Power Delivery negotiates the voltage over the power wires only, so making an adapter cable that doesn't pass data should still be an option for the paranoid among us. But good luck getting every user at a big company (say, Anthem or Premera) to do that religiously.
      - coldtea 12y ago
        Actually seems already implemented -- and that the original article was mostlt BS: "Gizmodo seems to believe the 12-inch MacBook is vulnerable to this direct attack, even going so far as to suggest that the NSA will distribute hacked USB-C power adapters designed to take over your notebook. But unlike Thunderstrike on vulnerable Macs (see “Thunderstrike Proof-of-Concept Attack Serious, but Limited,” 9 January 2015), the USB port uses Intel’s xHCI (eXtensible Host Controller Interface), which can’t be placed into a DFU (device firmware upgrade) mode to overwrite the MacBook’s firmware. Thus the MacBook itself can’t be infected with BadUSB, so plugging in an unknown power adapter can’t give someone control of your MacBook."

12 points by scribu 12y ago

> But that convenience doesn't come without a cost; our computers will be more vulnerable than ever to malware attacks, from hackers and surveillance agencies alike. Cut the crap. USB is just as vulnerable as it always was. The only thing that changed with USB-C was practicality and convenience.

wlesieutre 12y ago
The author knows USB is just as vulnerable as it always was. The thing that changed with USB-C is that you can't avoid plugging in USB devices. If you borrow someone's power cord, you're plugging an unknown USB device into your computer. Dropping a malicious USB drive in the parking lot was the traditional attack vector for USB devices, which obviously won't work as well with a power cord (a power cord sitting in the parking lot would be a bit suspicious), but it opens up new targeted attack vectors. Someone could easily swap out your power cord with a malicious one when you aren't looking, which might wait for your computer to be inactive, then kick into "fake keyboard mode" to open up a terminal, download whatever executable off of the internet, and run it (with your user privileges). It won't own the whole computer without authentication, but it'll own all of the data in your home folder.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >The thing that changed with USB-C is that you can't avoid plugging in USB devices. If you borrow someone's power cord, you're plugging an unknown USB device into your computer. You know, they could easily add a mode for it, so it only gets power and no data.
  - wlesieutre 12y ago
    Definitely could be, but I'm not holding my breath for any of the major OSes to implement that. You'd need a popup window for every new keyboard to say "This is a keyboard! Is it allowed to be a keyboard?" Which works for a laptop because you always have a keyboard/trackpackpad built in, but could be a problem on a desktop if you can't approve a keyboard/mouse without already having one connected and approved. Do desktops ever include accelerometers? Maybe you could pick it up and shake it to allow a new keyboard. On the other hand, as I understand it, USB Power Delivery negotiates the voltage over the power wires only, so making an adapter cable that doesn't pass data should still be an option for the paranoid among us. But good luck getting every user at a big company (say, Anthem or Premera) to do that religiously.
    - coldtea 12y ago
      Actually seems already implemented -- and that the original article was mostlt BS: "Gizmodo seems to believe the 12-inch MacBook is vulnerable to this direct attack, even going so far as to suggest that the NSA will distribute hacked USB-C power adapters designed to take over your notebook. But unlike Thunderstrike on vulnerable Macs (see “Thunderstrike Proof-of-Concept Attack Serious, but Limited,” 9 January 2015), the USB port uses Intel’s xHCI (eXtensible Host Controller Interface), which can’t be placed into a DFU (device firmware upgrade) mode to overwrite the MacBook’s firmware. Thus the MacBook itself can’t be infected with BadUSB, so plugging in an unknown power adapter can’t give someone control of your MacBook."