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Linus is a technical genius with a very abrasive personality. People tolerate the abrasive personality because he is an excellent programmer and steward for th

by Fede_V 12y ago

Linus is a technical genius with a very abrasive personality. People tolerate the abrasive personality because he is an excellent programmer and steward for the kernel. What's intolerable is when untalented people cargo-cult Jobs or Linus and pretend that their personality is what caused them to succeed. There is nothing more scary than an untalented manager reading one of the many 'inspirational' leadership books about Steve Jobs - they are likely to pick up every single wrong lesson. Has anyone ever complained that Terence Tao is apparently a genuinely really nice person? People would still work with Tao if he was a misanthropic asshole because he is probably the smartest person in the world, but it's not like being a kind and generous human being detracts from his genius.

bitwize 12y ago
But Linus's personality is only abrasive if you screw up majorly when you should have known better. We haven't seen Carmack when someone tries to contribute naff code to one of his game engines. He doesn't develop in the open the way Linus does.
- dalke 12y ago
  I've found that I inherently think that I've screwed up majorly in my code. Evidence shows though that's not the case, but that doesn't change how I feel. As my own strongest critic I write some pretty strong test cases, because I'm sure I did something wrong. Of course I can't test my own test plan, so I'm always worried that I missed something stupid where I should have known better. I also don't like strong emotional confrontation. Can you see why I wouldn't want to work with someone abrasive like Torvalds? Part of me will always be on edge expecting to be chastised, even if that were never directed to me. So it isn't only the targets of his abrasion which are affected, but also those who think they might be targets, even if that belief is wrongly held.
- Fede_V 12y ago
  I genuinely have no special insight into what Linus is like as a human being. I just think that his abrasiveness (even if it only manifests itself in a few circumstances) is a negative that people tolerate because he is such an exceptional project manager and programmer. The keyword is 'tolerate'. Too often, people think that his success comes not from his technical mastery (which is very difficult to imitate) but from aggressive rants and call outs - and try to imitate those and justify it as 'well that's how Linus runs the kernel'. It's even more prevalent with people cargo culting Steve Jobs' personality flaws thinking it will make their company the next apple.
  - peatmoss 12y ago
    Exactly: "succeeds in spite of" rather than, "succeeds because of."
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
  - striking 12y ago
    People don't just tolerate him for being negative, because he's really not all that negative. He's helpful if people actually need help. However, if he trusts you to not be stupid, and you break his trust, he's going to get mad. He needs to be able to trust people because he needs to merge thousands of patches and make sure nothing bad gets in. This is the only reason you should ever do what Jobs or Torvalds have done: trust.
- rasz_pl 12y ago
  >We haven't seen Carmack when someone tries to contribute naff code to one of his game engines. Romero
nhaehnle 12y ago
> What's intolerable is when untalented people cargo-cult Jobs or Linus and pretend that their personality is what caused them to succeed. Yes, some other, less talented developers are being jerks and decide that they should try to hide their deficiencies by imitating Linus Torvalds. That does happen. But I'm sure that to a far larger extent, imitating the style of the great leader is just something that happens subconsciously. That is really the reason why I disagree with nkozyra's grandparent comment. Even somebody who really knows their stuff must be conscious of how they communicate, because of the potential problems that arise when their style is inevitably adopted by those who don't really know their stuff.

by Fede_V 12y ago

bitwize 12y ago

But Linus's personality is only abrasive if you screw up majorly when you should have known better. We haven't seen Carmack when someone tries to contribute naff code to one of his game engines. He doesn't develop in the open the way Linus does.

dalke 12y ago
I've found that I inherently think that I've screwed up majorly in my code. Evidence shows though that's not the case, but that doesn't change how I feel. As my own strongest critic I write some pretty strong test cases, because I'm sure I did something wrong. Of course I can't test my own test plan, so I'm always worried that I missed something stupid where I should have known better. I also don't like strong emotional confrontation. Can you see why I wouldn't want to work with someone abrasive like Torvalds? Part of me will always be on edge expecting to be chastised, even if that were never directed to me. So it isn't only the targets of his abrasion which are affected, but also those who think they might be targets, even if that belief is wrongly held.
Fede_V 12y ago
I genuinely have no special insight into what Linus is like as a human being. I just think that his abrasiveness (even if it only manifests itself in a few circumstances) is a negative that people tolerate because he is such an exceptional project manager and programmer. The keyword is 'tolerate'. Too often, people think that his success comes not from his technical mastery (which is very difficult to imitate) but from aggressive rants and call outs - and try to imitate those and justify it as 'well that's how Linus runs the kernel'. It's even more prevalent with people cargo culting Steve Jobs' personality flaws thinking it will make their company the next apple.
- peatmoss 12y ago
  Exactly: "succeeds in spite of" rather than, "succeeds because of."
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- striking 12y ago
  People don't just tolerate him for being negative, because he's really not all that negative. He's helpful if people actually need help. However, if he trusts you to not be stupid, and you break his trust, he's going to get mad. He needs to be able to trust people because he needs to merge thousands of patches and make sure nothing bad gets in. This is the only reason you should ever do what Jobs or Torvalds have done: trust.
rasz_pl 12y ago
>We haven't seen Carmack when someone tries to contribute naff code to one of his game engines. Romero

nhaehnle 12y ago

> What's intolerable is when untalented people cargo-cult Jobs or Linus and pretend that their personality is what caused them to succeed. Yes, some other, less talented developers are being jerks and decide that they should try to hide their deficiencies by imitating Linus Torvalds. That does happen. But I'm sure that to a far larger extent, imitating the style of the great leader is just something that happens subconsciously. That is really the reason why I disagree with nkozyra's grandparent comment. Even somebody who really knows their stuff must be conscious of how they communicate, because of the potential problems that arise when their style is inevitably adopted by those who don't really know their stuff.