11 ms·

My wife recently asked me "Why did we decide to get a diamond at all, when we both knew it was a scam?" And I didn't really have a good answer. It just seemed

My wife recently asked me "Why did we decide to get a diamond at all, when we both knew it was a scam?" And I didn't really have a good answer. It just seemed like the thing to do at the time. We were both involved in picking out the rings, too; it's not like I went out and bought them for her without her input. Thankfully I didn't spend a completely insane amount of money on the rings (not compared to what I was earning -- less than a couple weeks' wages -- which is still too much, really but not the crazy amount some people spend). But neither of us were really ready to step that far away from what was "expected" of us, I guess.

lucaspiller 12y ago
I had pretty much the same conversation, and also bought a ring that wasn't too expensive. I did feel a bit stupid for even spending that much once I saw AliExpress had a similar ring for $2: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/GH620-Italina-brand-Classic-design-1carat-6mm-simulated-diamond-wedding-rings-for-women-18K-Gold-Plated/1652943787.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/GH620-Italina-brand-Classic-d... I actually ordered one to see what it's like: The band looks exactly the same (I'm guessing it's just plated or a alloy though) and the fake diamond looks more shiny and isn't as heavy as it should be.
- SomeCallMeTim 12y ago
  Wow. $2. Wow. I thought a carat of CZ was more than $2. I guess the raw materials just don't cost that much. :)
  - gutnor 12y ago
    Wow indeed ! I had to dig some prices to see if that was indeed possible, especially with shipping. Made me realize the real value of $1 outside supermarket. So, a top branded (Swarowsky) quality for a 1 ct equivalent CZ will run for $2, unbranded (AAAAA) for $1 and that's when you buy them by the unit. Good quality (AAA) one bought wholesale will not go over 0.30$. That's still for good quality, if you cut down on quality price can drop much further (try ebay-ing). Note that AAA quality is what I buy for my coloured stones and they are IMO magnificent. The material of the ring is silver plate, so that is basically worth nothing. Even if it was solid silver you would not have 1$ worth there, so $0.10 is probably generous. 2$ is probably 500% margin -at least- on the raw material (wow!) - I would not be surprised they didn't make 100% with manufacturing and shipping included. Impressive times to be alive. reference: * where I buy my CZ, not the cheapest: http://www.diamondcz.co.uk/ http://www.diamondcz.co.uk/ * http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html * some experience making jewellery * the reason it is a hobby and not a job: jewellery price on Camden Market (edit: formatting)
    - robhu 12y ago
      Where would you recommend for getting completed (i.e. not the raw materials) jewellery?
vacri 12y ago
Humans like rituals for the important moments in their lives. Buying a ring is one of many rituals around weddings, but for a lot of people, there's something viscerally satisfying about marking events ritually.
jsmeaton 12y ago
My partner and I have been having an argument about rings for a long time now. I have told her that I'm willing to buy a man-made diamond, but she won't have any of it. "I'd rather have nothing than a fake". It doesn't matter how much information I provide her about the scam, it just upsets her. It's so very frustrating, and it's not entirely her fault. The idea is just so firmly implanted by the world.
- GuiA 12y ago
  Just make sure that the lack of rational thinking in this area isn't present elsewhere. It's innocent enough when it's about a random chunk of mineral, but gets more problematic when it's about eg vaccinating your children.
  - anon4 12y ago
    I concur. Strong preference for diamonds is a pretty strong signal she might not be fit to raise your children.
    - jsmeaton 12y ago
      I can assure you, she is.
- jonah 12y ago
  There are non-blood diamonds available. You can also look into getting an old/antique ring which at least is re-use rather than buying new.
  - saiya-jin 12y ago
    it's more a matter of principle, whether you play along the con game like rest, or not. and no, diamonds are not expression of love, will not make marriage stronger, last longer, don't bring anything close to real happiness etc.
    - 12y ago
stuart78 12y ago
I faced a similar dilemma when purchasing my (now) wife's engagement ring. We were both familiar w/ the con, but she likes the traditional ring, so I wanted to find a diamond I could live with. Ended up with a vintage diamond ring from the 1940s (original papers and all). I was happy to avoid a greater contribution to the insanity of the diamond trade and my wife loved that the ring had a story stretching back a couple of decades.
- danieltillett 12y ago
  I am not sure why you are being down voted as you make a good point. The only think I can add is most diamonds have a history that stretches back a few billion years. Diamonds are amazing things, but I am not sure if they should be linked to love.
bostik 12y ago
You should the read the classic investigative piece on diamond trade and how the diamond ring was literally made into a luxury item. I am sure this has been linked from HN before, and believe it has at one point been a pretty active submission too. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you... Quote from the middle of the article: Since "young men buy over 90% of all engagement rings" it would be crucial to inculcate in them the idea that diamonds were a gift of love: the larger and finer the diamond, the greater the expression of love. Similarly, young women had to be encouraged to view diamonds as an integral part of any romantic courtship. EDIT: and this was already linked downthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9223903 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9223903
- depingus 12y ago
  In a similar vein, this documentary is fantastic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bzMrxVwl74 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bzMrxVwl74 It's about African conflict diamonds, but also covers the DeBeers monopoly.
  - bostik 12y ago
    Thank you. So far haven't had time to see more than the opening minutes, but this looks like something to refer to further down the line.
- SomeCallMeTim 12y ago
  Yeah, I'd read that. So had she. This is why we were somewhat surprised, after the fact, that we went through with it anyway. Cultural expectations can be a strong force, even if they were manufactured.
  - bostik 12y ago
    I think that's fascinating. You both knew you didn't really want the glitterstone, and yet acted against the knowledge. That makes "cultural expectations" just another euphemism for peer pressure.

lucaspiller 12y ago

I had pretty much the same conversation, and also bought a ring that wasn't too expensive. I did feel a bit stupid for even spending that much once I saw AliExpress had a similar ring for $2: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/GH620-Italina-brand-Classic-design-1carat-6mm-simulated-diamond-wedding-rings-for-women-18K-Gold-Plated/1652943787.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/GH620-Italina-brand-Classic-d... I actually ordered one to see what it's like: The band looks exactly the same (I'm guessing it's just plated or a alloy though) and the fake diamond looks more shiny and isn't as heavy as it should be.

SomeCallMeTim 12y ago
Wow. $2. Wow. I thought a carat of CZ was more than $2. I guess the raw materials just don't cost that much. :)
- gutnor 12y ago
  Wow indeed ! I had to dig some prices to see if that was indeed possible, especially with shipping. Made me realize the real value of $1 outside supermarket. So, a top branded (Swarowsky) quality for a 1 ct equivalent CZ will run for $2, unbranded (AAAAA) for $1 and that's when you buy them by the unit. Good quality (AAA) one bought wholesale will not go over 0.30$. That's still for good quality, if you cut down on quality price can drop much further (try ebay-ing). Note that AAA quality is what I buy for my coloured stones and they are IMO magnificent. The material of the ring is silver plate, so that is basically worth nothing. Even if it was solid silver you would not have 1$ worth there, so $0.10 is probably generous. 2$ is probably 500% margin -at least- on the raw material (wow!) - I would not be surprised they didn't make 100% with manufacturing and shipping included. Impressive times to be alive. reference: * where I buy my CZ, not the cheapest: http://www.diamondcz.co.uk/ http://www.diamondcz.co.uk/ * http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html * some experience making jewellery * the reason it is a hobby and not a job: jewellery price on Camden Market (edit: formatting)
  - robhu 12y ago
    Where would you recommend for getting completed (i.e. not the raw materials) jewellery?

vacri 12y ago

Humans like rituals for the important moments in their lives. Buying a ring is one of many rituals around weddings, but for a lot of people, there's something viscerally satisfying about marking events ritually.

jsmeaton 12y ago

My partner and I have been having an argument about rings for a long time now. I have told her that I'm willing to buy a man-made diamond, but she won't have any of it. "I'd rather have nothing than a fake". It doesn't matter how much information I provide her about the scam, it just upsets her. It's so very frustrating, and it's not entirely her fault. The idea is just so firmly implanted by the world.

GuiA 12y ago
Just make sure that the lack of rational thinking in this area isn't present elsewhere. It's innocent enough when it's about a random chunk of mineral, but gets more problematic when it's about eg vaccinating your children.
- anon4 12y ago
  I concur. Strong preference for diamonds is a pretty strong signal she might not be fit to raise your children.
  - jsmeaton 12y ago
    I can assure you, she is.
jonah 12y ago
There are non-blood diamonds available. You can also look into getting an old/antique ring which at least is re-use rather than buying new.
- saiya-jin 12y ago
  it's more a matter of principle, whether you play along the con game like rest, or not. and no, diamonds are not expression of love, will not make marriage stronger, last longer, don't bring anything close to real happiness etc.
  - 12y ago

stuart78 12y ago

I faced a similar dilemma when purchasing my (now) wife's engagement ring. We were both familiar w/ the con, but she likes the traditional ring, so I wanted to find a diamond I could live with. Ended up with a vintage diamond ring from the 1940s (original papers and all). I was happy to avoid a greater contribution to the insanity of the diamond trade and my wife loved that the ring had a story stretching back a couple of decades.

danieltillett 12y ago
I am not sure why you are being down voted as you make a good point. The only think I can add is most diamonds have a history that stretches back a few billion years. Diamonds are amazing things, but I am not sure if they should be linked to love.

bostik 12y ago

You should the read the classic investigative piece on diamond trade and how the diamond ring was literally made into a luxury item. I am sure this has been linked from HN before, and believe it has at one point been a pretty active submission too. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you... Quote from the middle of the article: Since "young men buy over 90% of all engagement rings" it would be crucial to inculcate in them the idea that diamonds were a gift of love: the larger and finer the diamond, the greater the expression of love. Similarly, young women had to be encouraged to view diamonds as an integral part of any romantic courtship. EDIT: and this was already linked downthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9223903 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9223903

depingus 12y ago
In a similar vein, this documentary is fantastic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bzMrxVwl74 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bzMrxVwl74 It's about African conflict diamonds, but also covers the DeBeers monopoly.
- bostik 12y ago
  Thank you. So far haven't had time to see more than the opening minutes, but this looks like something to refer to further down the line.
SomeCallMeTim 12y ago
Yeah, I'd read that. So had she. This is why we were somewhat surprised, after the fact, that we went through with it anyway. Cultural expectations can be a strong force, even if they were manufactured.
- bostik 12y ago
  I think that's fascinating. You both knew you didn't really want the glitterstone, and yet acted against the knowledge. That makes "cultural expectations" just another euphemism for peer pressure.