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Most Ivy has means testing calculator that will tell students what their tuition would be. In the days of internet, I actually found it surprising that many of

by pcurve 12y ago

Most Ivy has means testing calculator that will tell students what their tuition would be. In the days of internet, I actually found it surprising that many of these brilliant students didn't know that they can get free rides at Ivys.

randomnumber53 12y ago
It is interesting that people are talking about the Ivies, not "elite colleges" in general. The article defines a high achiever as "anyone who gets a 29 or better on the ACT or a combined 1,300 on the SAT." At most elite schools (Ivies + MIT, Caltech, Stanford, etc.) a 30 ACT score would be rather below average.
- pcurve 12y ago
  I think people lump MIT/Caltech/Stanford into Ivy bucket, even though they're superior to half the Ivies. You're right about the score. My guess is that these schools have different yardstick for rural + low income factors. And more importantly, they have billions in endowment to be able to 'afford' the fancy yardstick.
convexfunction 12y ago
I didn't learn Ivies commonly gave free rides until a while into my undergraduate at my state public university. I think what you're seeing is more an issue of questioning the specific assumptions that prevent the question from springing to mind, than it is knowing how to answer questions by searching the internet. Remember that their low-income parents and public school are probably doing very little or nothing to guide them through the applications process, and quite likely not even much to grok the sort of cultures where you have selection processes that require a lot of effort and domain knowledge, in general. This is a non-trivial case of jootsing if you aren't already immersed in a culture that brings you most of the way to asking the question. It's a serious test of reflective intelligence, unlike SATs and acquiring grades and conforming to the college admissions process which are pretty much all about algorithmic intelligence (using Stanovich's terminology).
im2w1l 12y ago
If you don't even know the question (can I afford Ivy League?) internet is little help.
- pcurve 12y ago
  That would make me sad, but it's understandable. It's no different than asking "will google hire me" when you're applying for jobs. Most people won't even consider google thinking that the bar is too high, when it may not be for a given individual.
jkimmel 12y ago
In some situations, getting the parental income information can make for an awkward conversation. If the students assume they won't get in for absolutely free, they might decide against asking their parents probing financial questions. This is different than the FAFSA. When I last filled it out, the FAFSA had an option for you to send a link to your parents, so they could fill in their information without disclosing it to you. Unfortunately, money is a taboo topic in American families, and I don't doubt that many applicants feel more comfortable using this option.
- pcurve 12y ago
  great point on parental income. Or anybody's income for that matter. It's a sensitive topic. Some will ask for things like cash holdings / equivalent, which is probably even more of a third rail.

by pcurve 12y ago

randomnumber53 12y ago

It is interesting that people are talking about the Ivies, not "elite colleges" in general. The article defines a high achiever as "anyone who gets a 29 or better on the ACT or a combined 1,300 on the SAT." At most elite schools (Ivies + MIT, Caltech, Stanford, etc.) a 30 ACT score would be rather below average.

pcurve 12y ago
I think people lump MIT/Caltech/Stanford into Ivy bucket, even though they're superior to half the Ivies. You're right about the score. My guess is that these schools have different yardstick for rural + low income factors. And more importantly, they have billions in endowment to be able to 'afford' the fancy yardstick.

convexfunction 12y ago

I didn't learn Ivies commonly gave free rides until a while into my undergraduate at my state public university. I think what you're seeing is more an issue of questioning the specific assumptions that prevent the question from springing to mind, than it is knowing how to answer questions by searching the internet. Remember that their low-income parents and public school are probably doing very little or nothing to guide them through the applications process, and quite likely not even much to grok the sort of cultures where you have selection processes that require a lot of effort and domain knowledge, in general. This is a non-trivial case of jootsing if you aren't already immersed in a culture that brings you most of the way to asking the question. It's a serious test of reflective intelligence, unlike SATs and acquiring grades and conforming to the college admissions process which are pretty much all about algorithmic intelligence (using Stanovich's terminology).

im2w1l 12y ago

If you don't even know the question (can I afford Ivy League?) internet is little help.

pcurve 12y ago
That would make me sad, but it's understandable. It's no different than asking "will google hire me" when you're applying for jobs. Most people won't even consider google thinking that the bar is too high, when it may not be for a given individual.

jkimmel 12y ago

In some situations, getting the parental income information can make for an awkward conversation. If the students assume they won't get in for absolutely free, they might decide against asking their parents probing financial questions. This is different than the FAFSA. When I last filled it out, the FAFSA had an option for you to send a link to your parents, so they could fill in their information without disclosing it to you. Unfortunately, money is a taboo topic in American families, and I don't doubt that many applicants feel more comfortable using this option.

pcurve 12y ago
great point on parental income. Or anybody's income for that matter. It's a sensitive topic. Some will ask for things like cash holdings / equivalent, which is probably even more of a third rail.