9 ms·

Atreus – kit to build your own mechanical keyboard

135 points by gnocchi 12y ago

fallat 12y ago
I've been eyeballing this for awhile now. The keyboard layout is so ingenious. The ergonomics are derived from ErgoDox. The only thing missing is a version where it is literally 2 halves of a keyboard which would make it more portable and essentially a smaller version of the ErgoDox. Seems like a great project for an amateur electronics engineer too. Sigh, if only I had the time, money and skills.
- technomancy 12y ago
  If you want a smaller version of the Ergodox, you could try two OneHand keyboards: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/onehand-20-keyboard-t6617-270.html http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/onehand-20-keyboard-t6617... It's a really neat design, but you'd have to source all the parts yourself. That said, most of the convenience advantage of the Atreus over the Ergodox comes not from its smaller size but its one-piece design. You couldn't place two OneHands in your lap and type from there; it's a lot more difficult to stabilize if you're in bed, on the couch, etc.
- to3m 12y ago
  You could try something like this, but (a) you can't get it yet, (b) even when you can, somebody will be building it for you, and (c) its thumbkeys may prove insufficiently avant garde: https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ Me? I'm waiting for one that doesn't have half its keys missing :(
nfoz 12y ago
This looks very nice to combine with the Novena: http://www.crowdsupply.com/kosagi/novena-open-laptop http://www.crowdsupply.com/kosagi/novena-open-laptop
- pingswept 12y ago
  I just got a Novena in the mail a few weeks ago, and today I assembled the switches of a Phantom keyboard [1] that I'm working on. Glad to hear that someone else has the same idea-- makes me feel less crazy! [1]: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Phantom_instruction_guide http://deskthority.net/wiki/Phantom_instruction_guide
Palomides 12y ago
I've built and am currently using an Atreus, open to questions.
- infecto 12y ago
  Are there any good kits or exact instructions/part lists?
  - Palomides 12y ago
    you can grab a full kit here: http://atreus.technomancy.us/ http://atreus.technomancy.us/ but it's pretty easy to source the parts, see https://github.com/technomancy/atreus/ https://github.com/technomancy/atreus/ (which also has links to build instructions)
- laex 12y ago
  Are you using it for writing codes ?
  - Palomides 12y ago
    honestly, I still struggle with it a bit (a month or two of casual usage, mostly English text, some C, some Python) and I've tweaked the layout a few times, but I think it's a lack of familiarity rather than a more fundamental issue like not having enough keys/needing several layers.
cgag 12y ago
I have an erdgodox at home and really miss it when I work at cafes, I'm kind of paranoid about something that doesn't have []{}(), etc on the may layer though.
- technomancy 12y ago
  Atreus creator here. While it's true that most keyboards have [] on the main layer, {} and () already require shifting on a conventional keyboard. The Atreus layout uses fn to hit these keys instead of shift, but apart from learning a new location, it's the same number of keystrokes. (There are no keys that require fn and shift to hit.) The only difference is that these keys on the Atreus layout are much closer to the home row, making them quicker to hit accurately.
  - sooheon 12y ago
    As long as I'm not using my right pinky for every key and its shifted mother :)
flashman 12y ago
I don't think my brain will ever accept a non-QWERTY keyboard layout, but I admire people with the compulsion and skills to try things like this.
O____________O 12y ago
I like the hacking/DIY aspect, but IMO there is still no keyboard that has anything on the Kinesis Advantage (or the older Classic, same layout): http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage-lf-for-pc-mac/ http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage-lf-for-pc-mac/ The only flaw is the row of horrible, rubbery, membrane function keys. I don't know why, but they just won't fix them. That said, I just remap my common F-keys (Visual Studio user) to other key chords and get on with my life. The firmware allows on-keyboard remapping and macros, by the way, so my Caps Lock ==> Esc remap follows my wherever I go. If anything, I'd rather that the separate key wells were even a bit further apart. I don't know how people can type with their wrists jammed so close together, even with the Atreus's angled halves. By the way, on the Kinesis, the hand wells are actually dished. They achieve this using a flexible PCB that's split into separate 'fingers' for each row of keys. To my knowledge none of the 'hacker' keyboards are dished like this.
- baddox 12y ago
  It really sucks that I type "Y" with my left hand's index finger. It makes a wide variety of interesting keyboard layouts infeasible without going in cold turkey.
  - lp251 12y ago
    I had the same habit. My typing speed fell dramatically when I first got my Kinesis, but after a week or so I was above 80 WPM again. I just noticed I still use my left index finger to type "y" on a non-Kinesis keyboard. Strange.
    - technomancy 12y ago
      I know someone who uses Colemak on matrix keyboards and Qwerty on conventionally-staggered keyboards and has no problem keeping them separate. Muscle memory is a weird thing.
    - davegauer 12y ago
      I'm a little late to the party, but I had to pipe in: my experience is identical to yours. I used the Kinesis for about two years. Further, I did NOT use my Kinesis for eight years (it sat in its box after a move) and then I plugged it into a laptop the other day and... was astounded to find that I didn't even have to look at it to start typing immediately, even the thumb keys!
chromaton 12y ago
If you want to design your own keyboard layout and get the CAD files automatically generated, check out this tool: http://builder.swillkb.com/ http://builder.swillkb.com/
alexkehayias 12y ago
Big fan of hackable mechanical keyboards. I built the Ergodox recently and it was pretty straight forward to put together and program layouts. I like the idea of a more portable mechanical keyboard because I end up bringing my keyboard back and forth to work :-)
TylerE 12y ago
I wish MS would sell a version of their ergonomic kb with To pre switches. I prefDr the MS layout over some of the more extreme layouts. Once I tried To pre switches nothing else compares. If I ever have real RSI issues that might change.
kfihihc 12y ago
I like mechanical keyboard. The past few months, I build a GH60[1] open source mechanical keyboard. And the ErgoDox[2] also an amazing open source ergo mechanical keyboard. Now, I plan create my own keyboard, some features i want: 1. Bluetooth supported (BLE) 2. Integrating Gestures Sensor. It supports left, right, up, down, wave, etc. It means I can control my app without mouse. 3. Ergo, same as ErgoDox 4. The main board which consists of BLE IC, power management etc is separate from the Keyboard PCB. Any advice? [1]: http://blog.komar.be/projects/gh60-programmable-keyboard/ http://blog.komar.be/projects/gh60-programmable-keyboard/ [2]: http://ergodox.org/ http://ergodox.org/
Animats 12y ago
That's still an electrical keyboard; it just has switches that click. As I've mentioned previously, I restore pre-WWII Teletype machines, so I often type on real mechanical keyboards with electrical outputs. A Teletype keyboard is a motor-driven mechanism where, when you push a key, a clutch is released, a shaft revolves one turn, and, via levers and cams, contacts close and open and the bits are encoded and sent. During this time, which is about 200ms on the older machines, you cannot press another key - the keys won't move. You can't press two keys at once. Everything is mechanically interlocked. The best way to use one is to type at a steady 5 characters per second, like playing a piano. Key travel is about half an inch, and the newer (1930 and later) models have spring-loaded green keytops with a nice cushioned spring mechanism. This provides about 0.100 inch of travel before the key lever starts to move. So if you type a little too fast, you don't blunt your fingers. The 1924 model doesn't have that; it has hard Underwood typewriter keys. That huge key travel, combined with a low key pressure (the motor is doing all the work, unlike a manual typewriter) is rather relaxing. Teletype operators were expected to type with few errors; there is no way to backspace or correct. Full-time Western Union operators often typed "blind" on a machine with a keyboard and tape punch, but no printer or display. That's a lost art today.
- arm 12y ago
  That doesn’t sound much like playing a piano to me. Any song not intended for beginners will require the pianist to press multiple keys at once (called chording¹). ―――――― ¹ — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chording https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chording
  - timtadh 12y ago
    I think the parent was referring to typing at a steady tempo not typing with a single key at a time. I rarely type with tempo at a computer. It would be interesting (and challenging!) to try.
- cogburnd02 12y ago
  > pre-WWII Teletype machines O.O Where do you get stuff like that? eBay? Yard & garage sales?
bnastic 12y ago
Has anyone tried using this with an iPad + USB connection kit from Apple? How's the power draw? Most keyboards are hit & miss for me (Poker draws too much power, and so does HHKB 2 Pro. Older pre-shine Ducky on the other hand works fine. Matias Laptop Pro is fine over BT but rather chunky). I would get this in a heartbeat if it would mean I could reduce my mobile hardware list to just a 4G iPad and an Atreus.
sir_charles804 12y ago
Another good option for DIY keyboards is the Planck http://planckkeyboard.com http://planckkeyboard.com. I'm typing on mine right now and quite enjoy it. Here's my build log: http://imgur.com/a/fWAvM?gallery http://imgur.com/a/fWAvM?gallery

135 points by gnocchi 12y ago

I've been eyeballing this for awhile now. The keyboard layout is so ingenious. The ergonomics are derived from ErgoDox. The only thing missing is a version where it is literally 2 halves of a keyboard which would make it more portable and essentially a smaller version of the ErgoDox. Seems like a great project for an amateur electronics engineer too. Sigh, if only I had the time, money and skills.

technomancy 12y ago
If you want a smaller version of the Ergodox, you could try two OneHand keyboards: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/onehand-20-keyboard-t6617-270.html http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/onehand-20-keyboard-t6617... It's a really neat design, but you'd have to source all the parts yourself. That said, most of the convenience advantage of the Atreus over the Ergodox comes not from its smaller size but its one-piece design. You couldn't place two OneHands in your lap and type from there; it's a lot more difficult to stabilize if you're in bed, on the couch, etc.
to3m 12y ago
You could try something like this, but (a) you can't get it yet, (b) even when you can, somebody will be building it for you, and (c) its thumbkeys may prove insufficiently avant garde: https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ Me? I'm waiting for one that doesn't have half its keys missing :(

nfoz 12y ago

This looks very nice to combine with the Novena: http://www.crowdsupply.com/kosagi/novena-open-laptop http://www.crowdsupply.com/kosagi/novena-open-laptop

pingswept 12y ago
I just got a Novena in the mail a few weeks ago, and today I assembled the switches of a Phantom keyboard [1] that I'm working on. Glad to hear that someone else has the same idea-- makes me feel less crazy! [1]: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Phantom_instruction_guide http://deskthority.net/wiki/Phantom_instruction_guide

Palomides 12y ago

I've built and am currently using an Atreus, open to questions.

infecto 12y ago
Are there any good kits or exact instructions/part lists?
- Palomides 12y ago
  you can grab a full kit here: http://atreus.technomancy.us/ http://atreus.technomancy.us/ but it's pretty easy to source the parts, see https://github.com/technomancy/atreus/ https://github.com/technomancy/atreus/ (which also has links to build instructions)
laex 12y ago
Are you using it for writing codes ?
- Palomides 12y ago
  honestly, I still struggle with it a bit (a month or two of casual usage, mostly English text, some C, some Python) and I've tweaked the layout a few times, but I think it's a lack of familiarity rather than a more fundamental issue like not having enough keys/needing several layers.

cgag 12y ago

I have an erdgodox at home and really miss it when I work at cafes, I'm kind of paranoid about something that doesn't have []{}(), etc on the may layer though.

technomancy 12y ago
Atreus creator here. While it's true that most keyboards have [] on the main layer, {} and () already require shifting on a conventional keyboard. The Atreus layout uses fn to hit these keys instead of shift, but apart from learning a new location, it's the same number of keystrokes. (There are no keys that require fn and shift to hit.) The only difference is that these keys on the Atreus layout are much closer to the home row, making them quicker to hit accurately.
- sooheon 12y ago
  As long as I'm not using my right pinky for every key and its shifted mother :)

flashman 12y ago

I don't think my brain will ever accept a non-QWERTY keyboard layout, but I admire people with the compulsion and skills to try things like this.

O____________O 12y ago

I like the hacking/DIY aspect, but IMO there is still no keyboard that has anything on the Kinesis Advantage (or the older Classic, same layout): http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage-lf-for-pc-mac/ http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage-lf-for-pc-mac/ The only flaw is the row of horrible, rubbery, membrane function keys. I don't know why, but they just won't fix them. That said, I just remap my common F-keys (Visual Studio user) to other key chords and get on with my life. The firmware allows on-keyboard remapping and macros, by the way, so my Caps Lock ==> Esc remap follows my wherever I go. If anything, I'd rather that the separate key wells were even a bit further apart. I don't know how people can type with their wrists jammed so close together, even with the Atreus's angled halves. By the way, on the Kinesis, the hand wells are actually dished. They achieve this using a flexible PCB that's split into separate 'fingers' for each row of keys. To my knowledge none of the 'hacker' keyboards are dished like this.

baddox 12y ago
It really sucks that I type "Y" with my left hand's index finger. It makes a wide variety of interesting keyboard layouts infeasible without going in cold turkey.
- lp251 12y ago
  I had the same habit. My typing speed fell dramatically when I first got my Kinesis, but after a week or so I was above 80 WPM again. I just noticed I still use my left index finger to type "y" on a non-Kinesis keyboard. Strange.
  - technomancy 12y ago
    I know someone who uses Colemak on matrix keyboards and Qwerty on conventionally-staggered keyboards and has no problem keeping them separate. Muscle memory is a weird thing.
  - davegauer 12y ago
    I'm a little late to the party, but I had to pipe in: my experience is identical to yours. I used the Kinesis for about two years. Further, I did NOT use my Kinesis for eight years (it sat in its box after a move) and then I plugged it into a laptop the other day and... was astounded to find that I didn't even have to look at it to start typing immediately, even the thumb keys!

chromaton 12y ago

If you want to design your own keyboard layout and get the CAD files automatically generated, check out this tool: http://builder.swillkb.com/ http://builder.swillkb.com/

alexkehayias 12y ago

Big fan of hackable mechanical keyboards. I built the Ergodox recently and it was pretty straight forward to put together and program layouts. I like the idea of a more portable mechanical keyboard because I end up bringing my keyboard back and forth to work :-)

TylerE 12y ago

I wish MS would sell a version of their ergonomic kb with To pre switches. I prefDr the MS layout over some of the more extreme layouts. Once I tried To pre switches nothing else compares. If I ever have real RSI issues that might change.

kfihihc 12y ago

I like mechanical keyboard. The past few months, I build a GH60[1] open source mechanical keyboard. And the ErgoDox[2] also an amazing open source ergo mechanical keyboard. Now, I plan create my own keyboard, some features i want: 1. Bluetooth supported (BLE) 2. Integrating Gestures Sensor. It supports left, right, up, down, wave, etc. It means I can control my app without mouse. 3. Ergo, same as ErgoDox 4. The main board which consists of BLE IC, power management etc is separate from the Keyboard PCB. Any advice? [1]: http://blog.komar.be/projects/gh60-programmable-keyboard/ http://blog.komar.be/projects/gh60-programmable-keyboard/ [2]: http://ergodox.org/ http://ergodox.org/

Animats 12y ago

That's still an electrical keyboard; it just has switches that click. As I've mentioned previously, I restore pre-WWII Teletype machines, so I often type on real mechanical keyboards with electrical outputs. A Teletype keyboard is a motor-driven mechanism where, when you push a key, a clutch is released, a shaft revolves one turn, and, via levers and cams, contacts close and open and the bits are encoded and sent. During this time, which is about 200ms on the older machines, you cannot press another key - the keys won't move. You can't press two keys at once. Everything is mechanically interlocked. The best way to use one is to type at a steady 5 characters per second, like playing a piano. Key travel is about half an inch, and the newer (1930 and later) models have spring-loaded green keytops with a nice cushioned spring mechanism. This provides about 0.100 inch of travel before the key lever starts to move. So if you type a little too fast, you don't blunt your fingers. The 1924 model doesn't have that; it has hard Underwood typewriter keys. That huge key travel, combined with a low key pressure (the motor is doing all the work, unlike a manual typewriter) is rather relaxing. Teletype operators were expected to type with few errors; there is no way to backspace or correct. Full-time Western Union operators often typed "blind" on a machine with a keyboard and tape punch, but no printer or display. That's a lost art today.

arm 12y ago
That doesn’t sound much like playing a piano to me. Any song not intended for beginners will require the pianist to press multiple keys at once (called chording¹). ―――――― ¹ — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chording https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chording
- timtadh 12y ago
  I think the parent was referring to typing at a steady tempo not typing with a single key at a time. I rarely type with tempo at a computer. It would be interesting (and challenging!) to try.
cogburnd02 12y ago
> pre-WWII Teletype machines O.O Where do you get stuff like that? eBay? Yard & garage sales?

bnastic 12y ago

Has anyone tried using this with an iPad + USB connection kit from Apple? How's the power draw? Most keyboards are hit & miss for me (Poker draws too much power, and so does HHKB 2 Pro. Older pre-shine Ducky on the other hand works fine. Matias Laptop Pro is fine over BT but rather chunky). I would get this in a heartbeat if it would mean I could reduce my mobile hardware list to just a 4G iPad and an Atreus.

sir_charles804 12y ago

Another good option for DIY keyboards is the Planck http://planckkeyboard.com http://planckkeyboard.com. I'm typing on mine right now and quite enjoy it. Here's my build log: http://imgur.com/a/fWAvM?gallery http://imgur.com/a/fWAvM?gallery