10 ms·

Mouse-Friendly Keyboard

42 points by jmilloy 12y ago

wmoxam 12y ago
Or ... you could get a tenkeyless keyboard
- falcolas 12y ago
  I wish there were more available that which keep the insert and inverted T arrow keys. Having to custom order them stinks.
  - dublinben 12y ago
    Like the CM Quickfire Rapid? Or any number of other TKL keyboards? https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/tenkeyless_keyboards https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/tenkeyless...
  - rodgerd 12y ago
    Look in the gaming keyboard isle. Clicky switches are huge there, and there are a lot of LAN party models which drop the numeric keypad while retaining the printscreen/insert/arrow block of keys. e.g. http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=422849 http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=422... http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=425644 http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=425...
- zedpm 12y ago
  Yep, switching to a tenkeyless keyboard made my wrist pain go away. The MS ergonomic keyboard I had previously didn't help a bit; switching to the narrow keyboard had an immediate impact.
- smrtinsert 12y ago
  got a great one from china, cherry blues i think. awesome for coding and fps gaming. http://www.amazon.com/Noppoo-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-Switches/dp/B0091QOCNA http://www.amazon.com/Noppoo-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-Swit...
cpwright 12y ago
The Kinesis Advantage also has no numeric pad, so that there is less travel for your hand to the mouse. I've had one for two years, and am a huge fan.
- tomkinstinch 12y ago
  Also a fan of the Kinesis Advantage. It took a few months to get back up to typing speed, but the Advantage completely alleviated the wrist pain I had previously. I have one paired with an Apple Magic Trackpad to further reduce wrist motion, and the combo works well (for me).
- zrail 12y ago
  I use a Kinesis Advantage with a Magic Trackpad[1]. It's the perfect setup for me. [1]: https://www.petekeen.net/mounting-a-magic-trackpad-on-a-kinesis-advantage-keyboard https://www.petekeen.net/mounting-a-magic-trackpad-on-a-kine...
sengork 12y ago
Or use the mouse on the left hand side of the keyboard...
- coderzach 12y ago
  If you're left handed...
  - to3m 12y ago
    Your left hand, assuming you have one, is not a useless appendage. It doesn't take much training to teach it to use the mouse. And then you can easily take notes while you work. Switching mouse hands was one of my better moves, I think. I now bitterly rue the years I spent wasting my time pushing it around with my writing hand. I can't play mouse games left-handed, but that's a small price to pay; the mouse is easily moved when necessary. Bonus points: you get to do a subtle social dominance power move if you sit at a left-hander's desk to help them out. (A statement that is made with tongue in cheek, but appears to be the truth nonetheless...)
- ansgri 12y ago
  best weird habit I've ever acquired. Took only 3 days.
- delish 12y ago
  I do this with a trackball; I learned to wiggle the mouse with my left hand because it fits with my desk better, and, like the product above points out, it's a little more ergonomic to avoid flying over the numpad. In my experience, trackballs have a tendency to better support ambidextrousness.
m0skit0 12y ago
Nonsense.
lukasm 12y ago
I've been looking for a keyboard with detachable numpad. Use case: Occasionally, I use Blender which has a lot of shortcuts and numpad is very useful, but I don't want to be always there . This looks promising.
- lowboy 12y ago
  Tenkeyless keyboard and a standalone USB numpad.
  - tracker1 12y ago
    I was just checking for a unicomp without a 10-key, they don't seem to have one.. :-( really prefer the feel of old-school buckling spring keyboards.
- cma 12y ago
  Go with the scult ergonomic from MS, has a wireless keypad that is awesome. The escape key sucks for vim, ended up remapping caps to escape.
quanticle 12y ago
The Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic keyboard [1] features a detached wireless numpad which you can place wherever you want. Say what you will about Microsoft, but their input devices are quite nice. [1] http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/b/sculpt-ergonomic-keyboard-for-business/5KV-00001 http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/b/sculpt-ergonomic-k...
- solen 12y ago
  The IntelliMouse 3.0 is basically a legend of its own.
- molecule 12y ago
  I've acquired two Sculpt Keyboards recently (home & work) and the numpads have remained in their respective boxes. Having the mouse closer is definitely more comfortable. > Say what you will about Microsoft, but their input devices are quite nice. I have a lot to say about Microsoft, but I've been a satisfied customer of their ergonomic keyboards for most of 10+ years: they're comfortable, functional, affordable and easy to find-- the latter two factors important for inevitable beverage spills...
- cma 12y ago
  I have one and love it, but fuck those squishy function and escape keys, they almost ruin it.
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  It's almost perfect. Key action is better than the Ergonomic 4000. But the screwed-up Home/End/Insert/Delete stuff is very annoying. Even months later, I'm still having to look and making mistakes. I put the numpad up on the desk past my mouse, for the few times I _need_ it. What I'd pay $$$ for is a Sculpt keyboard with mechanical keys. Nothing else, no new inventive designs, nothing crazy or very different, nothing terribly ugly. Just put some Cherry MXes onto a Sculpt and sell it to me. All the ergo-mech keyboards seem to either have significantly different layouts, or are just huge. [Another thing I'd pay $$$ for: sell me a kit to move the keyboard/pad on an old ThinkPad X/T/W series to transplant it onto a new one. I used to use my X201 all over, all the time. With my T440p, I actually hate using it. As in, it's negative and I actively dislike touching the damn thing.]
lorddoig 12y ago
I would highly recommend spending a little bit more (ok, double) and investing in a TypeMatrix 2030.[0] The size/mouse position thing is important I think - and the 2030 is of comparable size - but it's nothing compared to having vertically aligned keys and the most used buttons (enter/backspace) in the middle. Also the build quality is superb. I could never go back. [0]: http://www.typematrix.com/
- cordite 12y ago
  It really does seem weird at first, but it really does get comfortable. It also seems to have a moderate lifespan, since I've used mine for over three years now.
josu 12y ago
This looks absurd to me. I never put the mouse in front of my shoulder, I always use it at an angle. I'm trying to actually use the mouse like in the demo picture from the article [1] and it feels awkward. [1] http://evoluent.com/wp-content/themes/evoluent/images/kb1_comparison.jpg http://evoluent.com/wp-content/themes/evoluent/images/kb1_co...
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
RRRA 12y ago
How about a 60% keyboard like the Poker 2 or ducky, etc.? I've switched from a full keyboard to a Poker 2 and you can get used to it very quickly.
- taternuts 12y ago
  Yeah me too (tex beetle) - and 60% keyboards will get you even closer to your mouse than this board would, it looks pretty big
  - hatu 12y ago
    And it's actually a nice and solid keyboard with mechanical switches. This looks like a basic flimsy $10 keyboard in quality.
geoelectric 12y ago
I've actually really been wanting something like this, but can't find one (this one included) with Mac keycaps.
eCa 12y ago
I have a large gamer mousepad, which allows me to have the mouse in front of the keyboard with the keyboard still on the mousepad. Kind of like at the end of [1]. Works much better for me than having the mouse on either side of the keyboard. [1] http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/ergonomics/office/mouse/mouse_location.html http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/ergonomics/office/mouse/mouse...
pcunite 12y ago
I've been using the filco majestouch tenkeyless for years ... love it.
ErnestedCode 12y ago
But the 10-key on the left-hand side is near useless. Most people who use the 10-key are trained to use it with their right hand. It's better to just get a keyboard without a 10-key at all, put the mouse on the right and if you're an accountant, get a separate 10-key keyboard.
mavsman 12y ago
I actually enjoy stretching my mouse hand way out to the right as I recline in my chair. I find it relaxing.
jeswin 12y ago
>The Evoluent Mouse-Friendly Keyboard has a more sensible layout with the numeric keypad on the left so your mouse may be much closer on the right.(Patents pending.) Moving the numeric keypad to the left deserves a patent now? I hope the patent is never issued, even with the broken system in place.
slimetree 12y ago
The Happy Hacking Professional keyboard solves this in an interesting way: just kill off all the keys you don't need and use Emacs-style modes. http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=pfu_keyboards,hhkbpro2&pid=pdkb400wn http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=pfu_keyboards,hhk... (It's expensive, though.)
brudgers 12y ago
The MS Natural Ergonomic 4000 already solves this problem [and others] for me because it works so well in my lap. The Y in this XY problem is the keyboard on the desk...well and mouse centric interface use. Mouse ergonomics is just a weak sister of gorilla arms.

42 points by jmilloy 12y ago

wmoxam 12y ago

Or ... you could get a tenkeyless keyboard

falcolas 12y ago
I wish there were more available that which keep the insert and inverted T arrow keys. Having to custom order them stinks.
- dublinben 12y ago
  Like the CM Quickfire Rapid? Or any number of other TKL keyboards? https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/tenkeyless_keyboards https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/tenkeyless...
- rodgerd 12y ago
  Look in the gaming keyboard isle. Clicky switches are huge there, and there are a lot of LAN party models which drop the numeric keypad while retaining the printscreen/insert/arrow block of keys. e.g. http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=422849 http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=422... http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=425644 http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=425...
zedpm 12y ago
Yep, switching to a tenkeyless keyboard made my wrist pain go away. The MS ergonomic keyboard I had previously didn't help a bit; switching to the narrow keyboard had an immediate impact.
smrtinsert 12y ago
got a great one from china, cherry blues i think. awesome for coding and fps gaming. http://www.amazon.com/Noppoo-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-Switches/dp/B0091QOCNA http://www.amazon.com/Noppoo-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-Swit...

cpwright 12y ago

The Kinesis Advantage also has no numeric pad, so that there is less travel for your hand to the mouse. I've had one for two years, and am a huge fan.

tomkinstinch 12y ago
Also a fan of the Kinesis Advantage. It took a few months to get back up to typing speed, but the Advantage completely alleviated the wrist pain I had previously. I have one paired with an Apple Magic Trackpad to further reduce wrist motion, and the combo works well (for me).
zrail 12y ago
I use a Kinesis Advantage with a Magic Trackpad[1]. It's the perfect setup for me. [1]: https://www.petekeen.net/mounting-a-magic-trackpad-on-a-kinesis-advantage-keyboard https://www.petekeen.net/mounting-a-magic-trackpad-on-a-kine...

sengork 12y ago

Or use the mouse on the left hand side of the keyboard...

coderzach 12y ago
If you're left handed...
- to3m 12y ago
  Your left hand, assuming you have one, is not a useless appendage. It doesn't take much training to teach it to use the mouse. And then you can easily take notes while you work. Switching mouse hands was one of my better moves, I think. I now bitterly rue the years I spent wasting my time pushing it around with my writing hand. I can't play mouse games left-handed, but that's a small price to pay; the mouse is easily moved when necessary. Bonus points: you get to do a subtle social dominance power move if you sit at a left-hander's desk to help them out. (A statement that is made with tongue in cheek, but appears to be the truth nonetheless...)
ansgri 12y ago
best weird habit I've ever acquired. Took only 3 days.
delish 12y ago
I do this with a trackball; I learned to wiggle the mouse with my left hand because it fits with my desk better, and, like the product above points out, it's a little more ergonomic to avoid flying over the numpad. In my experience, trackballs have a tendency to better support ambidextrousness.

m0skit0 12y ago

Nonsense.

lukasm 12y ago

I've been looking for a keyboard with detachable numpad. Use case: Occasionally, I use Blender which has a lot of shortcuts and numpad is very useful, but I don't want to be always there . This looks promising.

lowboy 12y ago
Tenkeyless keyboard and a standalone USB numpad.
- tracker1 12y ago
  I was just checking for a unicomp without a 10-key, they don't seem to have one.. :-( really prefer the feel of old-school buckling spring keyboards.
cma 12y ago
Go with the scult ergonomic from MS, has a wireless keypad that is awesome. The escape key sucks for vim, ended up remapping caps to escape.

quanticle 12y ago

The Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic keyboard [1] features a detached wireless numpad which you can place wherever you want. Say what you will about Microsoft, but their input devices are quite nice. [1] http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/b/sculpt-ergonomic-keyboard-for-business/5KV-00001 http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/b/sculpt-ergonomic-k...

solen 12y ago
The IntelliMouse 3.0 is basically a legend of its own.
molecule 12y ago
I've acquired two Sculpt Keyboards recently (home & work) and the numpads have remained in their respective boxes. Having the mouse closer is definitely more comfortable. > Say what you will about Microsoft, but their input devices are quite nice. I have a lot to say about Microsoft, but I've been a satisfied customer of their ergonomic keyboards for most of 10+ years: they're comfortable, functional, affordable and easy to find-- the latter two factors important for inevitable beverage spills...
cma 12y ago
I have one and love it, but fuck those squishy function and escape keys, they almost ruin it.
MichaelGG 12y ago
It's almost perfect. Key action is better than the Ergonomic 4000. But the screwed-up Home/End/Insert/Delete stuff is very annoying. Even months later, I'm still having to look and making mistakes. I put the numpad up on the desk past my mouse, for the few times I _need_ it. What I'd pay $$$ for is a Sculpt keyboard with mechanical keys. Nothing else, no new inventive designs, nothing crazy or very different, nothing terribly ugly. Just put some Cherry MXes onto a Sculpt and sell it to me. All the ergo-mech keyboards seem to either have significantly different layouts, or are just huge. [Another thing I'd pay $$$ for: sell me a kit to move the keyboard/pad on an old ThinkPad X/T/W series to transplant it onto a new one. I used to use my X201 all over, all the time. With my T440p, I actually hate using it. As in, it's negative and I actively dislike touching the damn thing.]

lorddoig 12y ago

I would highly recommend spending a little bit more (ok, double) and investing in a TypeMatrix 2030.[0] The size/mouse position thing is important I think - and the 2030 is of comparable size - but it's nothing compared to having vertically aligned keys and the most used buttons (enter/backspace) in the middle. Also the build quality is superb. I could never go back. [0]: http://www.typematrix.com/

cordite 12y ago
It really does seem weird at first, but it really does get comfortable. It also seems to have a moderate lifespan, since I've used mine for over three years now.

josu 12y ago

This looks absurd to me. I never put the mouse in front of my shoulder, I always use it at an angle. I'm trying to actually use the mouse like in the demo picture from the article [1] and it feels awkward. [1] http://evoluent.com/wp-content/themes/evoluent/images/kb1_comparison.jpg http://evoluent.com/wp-content/themes/evoluent/images/kb1_co...

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

RRRA 12y ago

How about a 60% keyboard like the Poker 2 or ducky, etc.? I've switched from a full keyboard to a Poker 2 and you can get used to it very quickly.

taternuts 12y ago
Yeah me too (tex beetle) - and 60% keyboards will get you even closer to your mouse than this board would, it looks pretty big
- hatu 12y ago
  And it's actually a nice and solid keyboard with mechanical switches. This looks like a basic flimsy $10 keyboard in quality.

geoelectric 12y ago

I've actually really been wanting something like this, but can't find one (this one included) with Mac keycaps.

eCa 12y ago

I have a large gamer mousepad, which allows me to have the mouse in front of the keyboard with the keyboard still on the mousepad. Kind of like at the end of [1]. Works much better for me than having the mouse on either side of the keyboard. [1] http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/ergonomics/office/mouse/mouse_location.html http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/ergonomics/office/mouse/mouse...

pcunite 12y ago

I've been using the filco majestouch tenkeyless for years ... love it.

ErnestedCode 12y ago

But the 10-key on the left-hand side is near useless. Most people who use the 10-key are trained to use it with their right hand. It's better to just get a keyboard without a 10-key at all, put the mouse on the right and if you're an accountant, get a separate 10-key keyboard.

mavsman 12y ago

I actually enjoy stretching my mouse hand way out to the right as I recline in my chair. I find it relaxing.

jeswin 12y ago

>The Evoluent Mouse-Friendly Keyboard has a more sensible layout with the numeric keypad on the left so your mouse may be much closer on the right.(Patents pending.) Moving the numeric keypad to the left deserves a patent now? I hope the patent is never issued, even with the broken system in place.

slimetree 12y ago

The Happy Hacking Professional keyboard solves this in an interesting way: just kill off all the keys you don't need and use Emacs-style modes. http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=pfu_keyboards,hhkbpro2&pid=pdkb400wn http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=pfu_keyboards,hhk... (It's expensive, though.)

brudgers 12y ago

The MS Natural Ergonomic 4000 already solves this problem [and others] for me because it works so well in my lap. The Y in this XY problem is the keyboard on the desk...well and mouse centric interface use. Mouse ergonomics is just a weak sister of gorilla arms.