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Leap: Your daily commute redesigned
- rguzman 12y agoI can't shake the feeling that the existence of leap and that it seems compelling are symptoms of deeply flawed urban planning.
- nickpinkston 12y agoThat's because it is a symptom of "deeply flawed urban planning", but we work with work we've got in SF...
- JimboOmega 12y agoI can't shake the feeling that it's an answer to the problem "I like the idea of commuting in a shared vehicle, but the bus is dirty and sometimes homeless people ride it."
- pjlegato 12y agoYou say that as though disliking a ride on a filthy bus while sitting next to a homeless guy who smells like urine and stale vomit and is leering saliciously at every woman on the bus while murmuring obscenities and rubbing his groin is some sort of illegitimate and invalid reason that only a precious bourgeois person would dare to think.
- jsprogrammer 12y agoOut of sight, out of mind.
- girvo 12y agoNice one, going for the emotional and gender-based play. Homeless people are people too, surprisingly, and in my experience those that complain about homeless people on public transport are whinging about the mere presence of them, not saying that they're as extreme as your example.
- asimjalis 12y agoI have used buses in SF. They are unreliable. Sometimes a bus just never shows up, regardless of what the schedule says. Then two buses show up at the same time. This has happened to me several times.
- anishkothari 12y ago> Then two buses show up at the same time. This has happened to me several times. This is called bus bunching, here's an explanation. http://www.wbez.org/series/curious-city/why-buses-arrive-bunches-110941 http://www.wbez.org/series/curious-city/why-buses-arrive-bun...
- JimboOmega 12y agoI know someone who works at Muni (and generally will answer all my random muni questions). Bus bunching is, as that article notes, kind of inherent to the system. And the obvious solutions (like leapfrogging) drive people crazy. Actually, a lot of Muni's problems relate to "people get really upset when you do the obvious fix". Like reducing the number of stops... good luck with that!
- marquis 12y ago>Then two buses show up at the same time Just two? You've never caught a bus in Chicago then..
- baby 12y agoI think the "you can see where the bus is and how many seats are left in" is a really good way of doing public transportation.
- JimboOmega 12y agoA privatized intracity bus service? Somewhat interesting. But how can this compete with heavily subsidized, existing public bus service - without hitting all the same pitfalls that it does? (Like buses getting steadily less "express" as time goes on)?
- maxk42 12y agoWell for one: privatized bus services generate more revenue as ridership increases as opposed to subsidized buses which have to stretch the same amount of resources further.
- JimboOmega 12y agoI don't think that's the case. A public bus that's more full generates more revenue. They just also have subsidies that enable them to run services at a loss. I suppose on a per-rider basis this generates more revenue - because it costs a lot more.
- pjlegato 12y agoBecause the heavily subsidized public bus service in San Francisco, Muni, operates abysmally. Buses are usually filthy, massively overcrowded during rush hour, often very late, and make frequent stops. In many cases, taking the bus is only slightly faster than walking. Compounding the problem is the lack of buses on many popular commute routes, such as the Lombard-downtown route that Leap follows. They will either avoid these pitfalls or go out of business, because nobody will pay 3x more for a private bus service that is just as bad as the 1x public bus.
- baddox 12y ago> In many cases, taking the bus is only slightly faster than walking. I live in Soma, within one block of stops on several ostensibly good bus routes, but I still find that I need to be going at least 2 miles (sometimes even 3, depending on the destination) for it to be faster to bus than to walk. This obviously wouldn't be the case if any of said bus routes stuck even remotely to the stated schedule, or if traffic was at least somewhat predictable. Heck, it wouldn't even be the case if the real-time bus tracking worked (it doesn't), because then I could at least time my departure to avoid waiting 15+ minutes at the bus stop.
- schintan 12y agothe seats look sparse ..how are they going to get by with so few seats and still be competitive on price ?
- adambard 12y agoIt's expensive and they sell snacks too.
- deegles 12y agoAssuming a bus costs 100k@4% financing, that's about 2,200 a month. Salary for a driver could be another 100k (including benefits, taxes, etc). That's 8.3 k per month. CNG buses get about 3mpg at about $2/gallon equivalent cost to diesel (http://www.catf.us/resources/publications/files/20120227-Diesel_vs_CNG_FINAL_MJBA.pdf http://www.catf.us/resources/publications/files/20120227-Die...) Assuming 150 miles driven per day, that's $3,000 per month in fuel costs. Total costs per bus: $13,500/month or $450 per day. At $5 per ride, that's 2,700 rides per month or 90 per day. Even if they could only fit 10 people, that's less than 10 rides per day. Seems reasonable to me.
- schintan 12y agothis does not include the many kind of fees, fleet maintenance expenses, other staffing costs, etc
- demiraven 12y agoIt's not so competitive in terms of price to public transit. $6 for a single ride (compared to Muni's $2.25)
- xbryanx 12y agoHow in the world do you keep from falling on that thing when it comes to a stop? I'm a big fan of always sitting at the back of the bus. Whenever I am nearing my stop on a traditional city bus I really need to use all the hand holds to get to the front or side door to keep from falling down. This thing looks like it has none of those.
- coderzach 12y agoGoogle Bus as a service. This would be a great way for a startup to offer that benefit without the huge costs. I like it.
- gmarx 12y agoI used to wonder, years ago when I lived in SF, why does a supposedly green city have such lousy public transportation? If this is successful, expect MUNI to use legal means to get rid of it.
- pjlegato 12y agoPrivately run, regularly scheduled bus services open to the public, called "jitneys," are already illegal in San Francisco.[1] Leap and similar services seem to be ignoring this law. They were banned in the 1970s as Muni's service degraded, to shield it from competition. [1] http://missionlocal.org/2014/06/up-until-the-1970s-muni-had-competition/ http://missionlocal.org/2014/06/up-until-the-1970s-muni-had-...
- joshavant 12y agoThat's interesting, considering, for many years, I've seen this bus around San Francisco with 'jitney bus' literally printed on the side: http://images.nymag.com/travel/weekends/20090910sanfransisco2_insider.jpg http://images.nymag.com/travel/weekends/20090910sanfransisco...
- pjlegato 12y agoThat guy is the last holder of an old jitney license. The ban was enacted by not issuing any new licenses. People who already had them were allowed to keep operating. http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/A-One-Man-Traffic-Buster-Jitney-makes-quick-2832137.php http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/A-One-Man-Traffic-Buster-... http://www.yelp.com/biz/jess-losa-jitney-97-san-francisco http://www.yelp.com/biz/jess-losa-jitney-97-san-francisco
- eloisant 12y agoSF was puzzling to me when I live in the Bay Area. In Paris, using your car is hell but you have a good transportation network. In smaller French cities, the transportation network is less developed but you can take your car everywhere and park easily. But San Francisco... Both parking and mass transit is bad! The only viable solution is the bike, but that only works if you're living in the city.
- untog 12y agoShould probably mention it's SF-only at the start.
- steeef 12y agoIndeed. I skimmed the top of the page and my first thought was "Is this a transit app? Oh, 'Lombard'. Must be SF-only".
- andy318 12y agoAnyone know Leap's arragement with their drivers? Their TOS makes it seem like the Uber for buses. From Terms of service - "LEAP DOES NOT PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION SERVICES, AND LEAP IS NOT A TRANSPORTATION CARRIER. IT IS UP TO THE DRIVER OR VEHICLE OPERATOR TO OFFER TRANSPORTATION SERVICES WHICH MAY BE ARRANGED THROUGH USE OF THE SERVICES"
- jsprogrammer 12y agoGot to love it when the ALL CAPS directly contradicts all published marketing and intuition. >see why Leap is the daily commute you’ll love >Here’s how you ride >Our first route travels between Lombard Street and Downtown. >You’ll love our buses >Our buses are fueled by renewable natural gas and take cars off the road. >We stripped our buses down >Every bus has a Leap team member on board >Our beautifully designed app is the perfect companion to our buses It sounded somewhat cool until you brought up these terms in their TOS. Now I'm just thinking: fuck these guys.
- ojbyrne 12y agoEspecially when the FAQ says: "Do you use professional drivers? All of our drivers have years of experience driving public and private transit. Each driver must pass through a complete background check and adhere to a zero tolerance alcohol and drug policy." It sounds like its just a way to make bus drivers 1099 contractors, while dictating everything they do, since it seems unlikely to me that there are many bus owner/operators.
- ibejoeb 12y agoI don't know if you should go that far. It's probably just a practical matter of operating a carrier. It might not be advantageous to combine logistics and operators, just like it's not really practical to build the motor vehicles themselves, even for large operations like city public transit.
- jsprogrammer 12y agoFine, but who knows if that's true. State that up front then, don't bury it in ALL CAPS in your lengthy disclaimer on a separate page while having all your marketing material present a much different view of what you are actually offering. Most likely this is an attempt to maximize the "app's" profits while pushing as much liability as possible off on to other people (ie. the driver and your "users") and to flout industry standards and regulations.
- grumblestumble 12y agooakland to sf would be huge. compete with the increasingly overcrowded BART, especially on the pitt/bay point line, and the unreliable transbay buses. there's already a huge "casual carpool" culture you could eat into.
- patmcguire 12y agoThings like this exist in New York, although they're significantly more... informal. Two dollars, cash. http://projects.newyorker.com/story/nyc-dollar-vans/ http://projects.newyorker.com/story/nyc-dollar-vans/ Leap can be faster because they cut a lot of things that the SFMTA buses provides. A big delay on the public buses is letting people with wheelchairs on and off, if they are using the same design as the video it looks like they don't support that. They can also cream skim the most popular routes - SMFTA is sort of obliged to offer at least some route going near most places, regardless of whether that gets them anywhere quickly.
- jlees 12y agoReminds me of the Nairobi matatus, too: https://medium.com/@transitapp/hello-nairobi-cc27bb5a73b7 https://medium.com/@transitapp/hello-nairobi-cc27bb5a73b7
- ngoel36 12y agoI don't understand why I would take this for $5 a ride over LyftLine or UberPool ($5/$7 without Surge) which offers presumably much quicker service and no walking to/from stops. That being said, I would be pumped to see something like this between SF and Palo Alto
- throwawaymsft 12y agoYou're on a comfortable bus, in a comfortable chair with a table, with giant windows, and not being jostled around in the back of a minivan.
- cookiecaper 12y agoDon't forget all the attractive women and hipster-compatible snacks featured in the video! I'd be interesting in learning about Leap's program to keep flirtatious models aboard every operating bus, as the video seems to make that a primary selling point.
- testingonprod 12y agoI wouldn't mind
- jsprogrammer 12y agoAlso, it seems you would be contributing less pollution to the city and burning less hydrocarbons, as a full bus running on natural gas is more efficient than a standard auto's ICE on gasoline which is transporting one person.
- nakovet 12y agoFrom the video the first thing I noticed was the lack of basic safety items, usually in regular buses there are tons of places that you can hold onto, and if it's a longer trip there is even belts, so I wonder how is the licensing of this automobiles.
- timdaub 12y agoAs a person who regularly rides the bus on my way to work I can assure you that you will most certainly not be able to work on a sideways positioned table in a CITY-bus. Busses turn left, right with speed and in some cases break strongly. Speaking of motion sickness, most people I know are not even able to work riding a train (ICE for example, which is perfectly comfortable IMO), so why should/would/could they on a city bus. However, the interior looks nice and if you're promised a seat then this might still be a nice alternative to public transportation.
- remarkEon 12y agoCalifornia Vehicle Code, §22500: No person shall stop, park, or leave standing any vehicle whether attended or unattended, except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the directions of a peace officer or official traffic control device, in any of the following places: [...] (i) Except as provided under Section 22500.5, alongside curb space authorized for the loading and unloading of passengers of a bus engaged as a common carrier in local transportation when indicated by a sign or red paint on the curb erected or painted by local authorities pursuant to an ordinance. So I guess they aren't using SFMTA bus stops. At least, they aren't supposed to. § 22500.5 is the exemption for school buses. I don't live in SF, but is this rule usually followed? In Seattle it seems a lot of the city bus stops are quickly becoming inaccessible to non Seattle Transit vehicles by design (lots of new construction for bike lanes and separate lanes for public trans). So beyond the legal issues, I think something like this would start to run into real world physical limitations of which cities could actually support something like this - at least in the urban core. The sort of satellite commutes you see in cities like Minneapolis would be a different story. http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&division=11.&title=&part=&chapter=9.&article= http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xh... Edit: first link pointed to an older .gov site
- JimboOmega 12y agoThere was a lot of fussing and moaning over tech buses using Muni stops, but that got resolved legally (even if people aren't all happy about it). You should bear in mind that for a lot of similar startups (e.g., Uber) there's a sort of "we'll sort the legal stuff out later" attitude that, so far, has tended to work out well for them..