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I don't think this trial has much to do with larger women in tech issues. There's a lot of politics at play for ALL employees of VC firms and this doesn't sound

I don't think this trial has much to do with larger women in tech issues. There's a lot of politics at play for ALL employees of VC firms and this doesn't sound any different. If you've been following all of the coverage of this case, Pao isn't coming off well. She states that it was discriminatory that she didn't get her review on time. Unprofessional to have a delayed review? Yes. Gender harassment? No. Instead of doing her review, they just gave her a bonus of $150,000 and a $40,000 raise (that she claims not to remember). http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/03/ellen-pao-was-resentful-and-dismissive-kleiner-perkins-lawyers-say/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/03/ellen-pao-was-res... From this article: > Pao has also raised an incident in which one of the firm’s senior partners, former Hewlett-Packard Chairman Ray Lane, asked her and a second female colleague to takes notes at a partners' meeting. "I just froze, I wasn’t sure what to do," Pao testified on the stand. I'm a man in a managerial position. I've been asked to take notes many times in meetings. Sometimes I do, sometimes I have to talk a lot and so someone else has to. > Kleiner waited too long to fire a male partner who seemed to be treating the firm as his own private dating website. Pao and Nazre were dating and both married at the time. There's a ton of he said she said, but to put it all on Nazre isn't fair. [EDIT] I was incorrect about this. See Anechoic's comment below. Pao has stated that she took the Reddit CEO role because she couldn't get a job as an investor. Honestly, Reddit CEO sounds like a much better job than all but the most senior of investment positions. There's a lot to this story, and it's getting legs because gender issues in tech are a HOT topic right now. I don't see any of this case having larger implications though. [EDIT] Please don't just downvote me. If you disagree, leave a reply.

ditonal 12y ago
I don't see how you could possibly not see how it has larger implications. For years we've been told that the reason there's no women in tech is because of all us sexist brogrammers, despite the typical programmer being the opposite of a 'bro', while the VCs very much resemble them, and somehow VCs being 96% male with most top firms having NO women as partners slips by unnoticed. VCs intentionally create frat house cultures at the tech companies they invest in because they assume it saves them money to hire misfit programmers who need a workplace to provide a social life rather than act like processionals and demand professional compensation, and that frat house culture is also antagonistic to people who aren't young males. Finally, I don't see how you could read a case where a VC firm made mis-step after mis-step, and a highly qualified woman suggested they invest in winners like Twitter only to be ignored, and brushed off for invites to the Democrats the VCs are in bed with like Al Gore, and not see how she clearly as an extremely strong case of gender discrimination against a rich and powerful sect of elite VCs who have hidden their sickening behavior in the shadows for far too long.
- thejaredhooper 12y ago
  I think that she just might've just been a bad egg, given the facts presented in the article.
  - ditonal 12y ago
    Very convenient that this 'bad egg' in VC happens to be one of the 4% women in the field, and who again, seemed to do a far, far more competent job at the actual job description of picking the right companies to invest in, rather than total intangibles like 'thought leadership' and 'owning the room'. Read more articles about the case, read about how she wanted to invest in Twitter but they picked a bunch of losers instead, and still ignored her for promotion for intangibles that can straightfowardly be construed as gender-biased.
    - thejaredhooper 12y ago
      I'll read more into it like you suggest.
- malvosenior 12y ago
  You're throwing a lot of opinion out there that's not backed by evidence or even anecdote. I currently work for a VC funded company and have worked for several in the past. I would not describe any of them as "frat house cultures". You're making some pretty sweeping generalizations. The dinner with Al Gore was for senior partners and there WAS women invited, they just couldn't make it. Here's Mary Meeker on the subject: http://recode.net/2015/03/16/liveblog-mary-meeker-testifies-in-paokleiner-perkins-case/ http://recode.net/2015/03/16/liveblog-mary-meeker-testifies-... > a highly qualified woman suggested they invest in winners like Twitter only to be ignored We don't know the fully story here. They had already looked at investing in Twitter and passed. A mistake? Sure. But anti-portfolios are famous. Whether Pao is "highly qualified" or not is debatable. Has she made any successful investments? Was she previously a successful entrepreneur? Those are things that would make you highly qualified to be a VC. I don't see anything "sickening" here.
  - 12y ago
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
tptacek 12y ago
I downvoted you, because you purported to summarize the case for readers who haven't been following it, and then provided a very misleading summary. Pao's case does not revolve around delayed reviews, or who took notes in meetings. One needn't have an opinion about the merits of Pao's case to have a negative opinion about the merits of this summary.
- malvosenior 12y ago
  Care to provide some links to what you think the case IS about? I'm addressing points raised in the submitted article and the article I provided a link to. How am I being misleading?
  - dasil003 12y ago
    Cherry-picking.
    - malvosenior 12y ago
      Please supply the missing information then. I want to be as accurate as possible! I'm not cherry picking, just pointing to actual points being raised in these articles.
      - tptacek 12y ago
        It's ok to be uninformed about a random legal case. You don't have a duty to be informed about Pao. What's not OK is to casually and incorrectly declare yourself informed and then to provide an opinionated summary based on that false credential, which is what you've managed to do here.
        malvosenior 12y ago
        Aside from Anechoic who gave a very appreciated correction to my comment, not a single person has provided any additional information. You keep saying I'm uninformed but you've not provided any information to this discussion. Please do! I want to know more.
Anechoic 12y ago
Pao and Nazre were dating and both married at the time. Implied in the Ars article, and stated directly in other articles [0,1,2], the affair happened in 2006, but according to Wiki [3] Pao wasn't married until 2007. [0] http://www.siliconbeat.com/2015/02/17/ellen-pao-vs-kleiner-perkins-caufield-byers-sex-discrimination-case-goes-to-trial/ http://www.siliconbeat.com/2015/02/17/ellen-pao-vs-kleiner-p... [1] http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/3/8141053/ellen-pao-kleiner-perkins-venture-capital http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/3/8141053/ellen-pao-kleiner-p... [2] http://www.wired.com/2015/02/ellen-pao-trial-day-two/ http://www.wired.com/2015/02/ellen-pao-trial-day-two/ [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Pao#Personal_life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Pao#Personal_life
- malvosenior 12y ago
  Thank you for this. I'll add it to my comment.
lawnchair_larry 12y ago
This is a women in VC story, nothing to do with women in tech.
- michaelochurch 12y ago
  VCs are the bosses of tech. VCs are the real executives in Silicon Valley and "founders" are upper-mid-level project managers in the world's first postmodern corporation.
michaelochurch 12y ago
If you've been following all of the coverage of this case, Pao isn't coming off well. In the worst case for her, Ellen Pao turns out to be like Michael Brown: not sympathetic, not a victim, but the case still illustrates a lot of systemic bias and moral failure. (Not to say that is how it is playing out or will play out.) I think she probably did have her reputation (internal to the firm) damaged for reasons that constitute gender harassment. I also think that she was passed over and fired not because she was a woman, but because her reputation was damaged and she probably couldn't get much done. The question is how responsible the firm itself is for spotting problems like that and allowing people to clear their own names.
gadders 12y ago
The Kleiner Perkins pre-trial brief also implied that the case was launched due to Pao's husband's money problems. "F. Pao Files A Complaint Full of Unnecessary and Salacious Details In May 2012, Pao filed this lawsuit alleging gender discrimination, retaliation (for allegedly complaining that Nazre sexually harassed her in 2007), and failure to prevent discrimination. Simultaneously, Pao’s husband, Alphonse “Buddy” Fletcher Jr., filed for bankruptcy on behalf of his hedge fund Fletcher Asset Management (“PAM”) when PAM failed to pay back pension funds that requested reimbursement of their investments.8 The appointed bankruptcy trustee ultimately issued a report stating that PAM had not had a single profitable investment since 2007 (the year Fletcher married Pea) and had committed several improper acts..." http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/256174979-Kleiner-Perkins-brief.pdf http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/256174...
- MollyR 12y ago
  I know I haven't been keeping up on this hot topic. But Wow, I didn't know that. It adds a whole new dimension to this case.

ditonal 12y ago

I don't see how you could possibly not see how it has larger implications. For years we've been told that the reason there's no women in tech is because of all us sexist brogrammers, despite the typical programmer being the opposite of a 'bro', while the VCs very much resemble them, and somehow VCs being 96% male with most top firms having NO women as partners slips by unnoticed. VCs intentionally create frat house cultures at the tech companies they invest in because they assume it saves them money to hire misfit programmers who need a workplace to provide a social life rather than act like processionals and demand professional compensation, and that frat house culture is also antagonistic to people who aren't young males. Finally, I don't see how you could read a case where a VC firm made mis-step after mis-step, and a highly qualified woman suggested they invest in winners like Twitter only to be ignored, and brushed off for invites to the Democrats the VCs are in bed with like Al Gore, and not see how she clearly as an extremely strong case of gender discrimination against a rich and powerful sect of elite VCs who have hidden their sickening behavior in the shadows for far too long.

thejaredhooper 12y ago
I think that she just might've just been a bad egg, given the facts presented in the article.
- ditonal 12y ago
  Very convenient that this 'bad egg' in VC happens to be one of the 4% women in the field, and who again, seemed to do a far, far more competent job at the actual job description of picking the right companies to invest in, rather than total intangibles like 'thought leadership' and 'owning the room'. Read more articles about the case, read about how she wanted to invest in Twitter but they picked a bunch of losers instead, and still ignored her for promotion for intangibles that can straightfowardly be construed as gender-biased.
  - thejaredhooper 12y ago
    I'll read more into it like you suggest.
malvosenior 12y ago
You're throwing a lot of opinion out there that's not backed by evidence or even anecdote. I currently work for a VC funded company and have worked for several in the past. I would not describe any of them as "frat house cultures". You're making some pretty sweeping generalizations. The dinner with Al Gore was for senior partners and there WAS women invited, they just couldn't make it. Here's Mary Meeker on the subject: http://recode.net/2015/03/16/liveblog-mary-meeker-testifies-in-paokleiner-perkins-case/ http://recode.net/2015/03/16/liveblog-mary-meeker-testifies-... > a highly qualified woman suggested they invest in winners like Twitter only to be ignored We don't know the fully story here. They had already looked at investing in Twitter and passed. A mistake? Sure. But anti-portfolios are famous. Whether Pao is "highly qualified" or not is debatable. Has she made any successful investments? Was she previously a successful entrepreneur? Those are things that would make you highly qualified to be a VC. I don't see anything "sickening" here.
- 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

tptacek 12y ago

I downvoted you, because you purported to summarize the case for readers who haven't been following it, and then provided a very misleading summary. Pao's case does not revolve around delayed reviews, or who took notes in meetings. One needn't have an opinion about the merits of Pao's case to have a negative opinion about the merits of this summary.

malvosenior 12y ago
Care to provide some links to what you think the case IS about? I'm addressing points raised in the submitted article and the article I provided a link to. How am I being misleading?
- dasil003 12y ago
  Cherry-picking.
  - malvosenior 12y ago
    Please supply the missing information then. I want to be as accurate as possible! I'm not cherry picking, just pointing to actual points being raised in these articles.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      It's ok to be uninformed about a random legal case. You don't have a duty to be informed about Pao. What's not OK is to casually and incorrectly declare yourself informed and then to provide an opinionated summary based on that false credential, which is what you've managed to do here.
      - malvosenior 12y ago
        Aside from Anechoic who gave a very appreciated correction to my comment, not a single person has provided any additional information. You keep saying I'm uninformed but you've not provided any information to this discussion. Please do! I want to know more.

Anechoic 12y ago

Pao and Nazre were dating and both married at the time. Implied in the Ars article, and stated directly in other articles [0,1,2], the affair happened in 2006, but according to Wiki [3] Pao wasn't married until 2007. [0] http://www.siliconbeat.com/2015/02/17/ellen-pao-vs-kleiner-perkins-caufield-byers-sex-discrimination-case-goes-to-trial/ http://www.siliconbeat.com/2015/02/17/ellen-pao-vs-kleiner-p... [1] http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/3/8141053/ellen-pao-kleiner-perkins-venture-capital http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/3/8141053/ellen-pao-kleiner-p... [2] http://www.wired.com/2015/02/ellen-pao-trial-day-two/ http://www.wired.com/2015/02/ellen-pao-trial-day-two/ [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Pao#Personal_life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Pao#Personal_life

malvosenior 12y ago
Thank you for this. I'll add it to my comment.

lawnchair_larry 12y ago

This is a women in VC story, nothing to do with women in tech.

michaelochurch 12y ago
VCs are the bosses of tech. VCs are the real executives in Silicon Valley and "founders" are upper-mid-level project managers in the world's first postmodern corporation.

michaelochurch 12y ago

If you've been following all of the coverage of this case, Pao isn't coming off well. In the worst case for her, Ellen Pao turns out to be like Michael Brown: not sympathetic, not a victim, but the case still illustrates a lot of systemic bias and moral failure. (Not to say that is how it is playing out or will play out.) I think she probably did have her reputation (internal to the firm) damaged for reasons that constitute gender harassment. I also think that she was passed over and fired not because she was a woman, but because her reputation was damaged and she probably couldn't get much done. The question is how responsible the firm itself is for spotting problems like that and allowing people to clear their own names.

gadders 12y ago

The Kleiner Perkins pre-trial brief also implied that the case was launched due to Pao's husband's money problems. "F. Pao Files A Complaint Full of Unnecessary and Salacious Details In May 2012, Pao filed this lawsuit alleging gender discrimination, retaliation (for allegedly complaining that Nazre sexually harassed her in 2007), and failure to prevent discrimination. Simultaneously, Pao’s husband, Alphonse “Buddy” Fletcher Jr., filed for bankruptcy on behalf of his hedge fund Fletcher Asset Management (“PAM”) when PAM failed to pay back pension funds that requested reimbursement of their investments.8 The appointed bankruptcy trustee ultimately issued a report stating that PAM had not had a single profitable investment since 2007 (the year Fletcher married Pea) and had committed several improper acts..." http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/256174979-Kleiner-Perkins-brief.pdf http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/256174...

MollyR 12y ago
I know I haven't been keeping up on this hot topic. But Wow, I didn't know that. It adds a whole new dimension to this case.