12 ms·

Dear Packaging, I Hate You

87 points by tigrella 12y ago

Mithaldu 12y ago
Is it just me or is this a stealth commercial for Pencil?
- paulgerhardt 12y ago
  Doubtful. From what a quick scan on Crunchbase says, Bolt did not make any investments in FiftyThree (the makers of Pencil) nor do they share investors. Bolt has however made a number of investments in hardware companies that gained traction through crowdfunding. This is the audience. Not all of these companies were founded by people with backgrounds in this space, so the model they resort to when looking for "nice" is to emulate Apple. FiftyThree is a former Microsoft industrial design team so they had knowledge of how to make any kind of packaging. They serve as a great goal post for Bolt to point to as an alternative example of "nice" that's not one of their own investments. The implication here is that they are not self-promoting.
beat 12y ago
Totally disagree with this article. Talking about startup resource constraints while illustrating with the products of the biggest, most successful company in the world is more than a little disingenuous. Focusing on a great user experience includes focusing on the packaging. The experience should be totally seamless. For an upscale/luxury consumer goods company (like Apple), shoddy packaging is expensive - far more expensive than the luxury packaging whose costs the author decries. If I want a mediocre experience, I'll go to HP or Asus or something. A continuously delightful user experience buys customer loyalty. The thoughtfulness of good packaging engenders trust. If I see bad packaging, I trust the the attention to detail less for the company that made the product. If they don't care about the box, they won't care about the buttons, or the software, or the color correctness, or any of the thousands of other details that make a consumer product. Then I stop shopping for quality, and start shopping for a price point and feature list. When Apple argues that they have the best products in the world, they can point right to their packaging - they have the best packaging in the world. Best in every way. Is this good logic for a startup? Of course not! No startup has Apple's resources. A startup has to focus on ONE thing. But Apple has to focus on ALL things.
- hamburglar 12y ago
  Apple used to have the best packaging in the world, but lately it's been my opinion that they've lost sight of making the packaging functionally nice and are simply focusing on making it nice looking. Case in point, the incident last year where the guy first in line at the Apple store for his iPhone on release day struggled with opening the box and ended up launching his new phone onto the sidewalk in front of a news crew. Incidentally, I watched a friend do exactly the same thing the very next day. And recently, a friend and I both bought some particular apple accessory and separately commented on how difficult it was to figure out how to get it out of the box.
  - beat 12y ago
    You may be right. I think there are other handling flaws in the iPhone 6 as well - enough so that it's the first iPhone I've had since my first one (iPhone 2) that I've liked less than its predecessor. I blame losing Steve Jobs and his ridiculous sensitivity to such details.
  - kenrikm 12y ago
    Agree++ The iPhone 6 Packaging was terrible. Way too easy to drop the phone since it was in a really shallow groove right at the top.
    - agumonkey 12y ago
      Motorola used a similar packaging for the Moto X. Ironically, the cheaper Moto G packaging uses simple deeper cardboard folds and thus is a lot more 'secure'. See: http://imgur.com/XTNbTr7 http://imgur.com/XTNbTr7 "Being rich demands fine motor skills." -- a high end smartphone owner
      - kenrikm 12y ago
        Or if motor skills are lacking, future iCracked customer, Disclosure: I work for iCracked (YCW12).
  - 12y ago
calciphus 12y ago
Generally, I agree. I feel like I'm wasting my money when I unwrap something with overly "beautiful" packaging. It's a tiny fraction of my experience, I've already bought it at this point and figuring out all the nested little components hidden away and all the custom printing is just adding to the price with expensive trash. I know it's heresy, but I hate Apple packaging for exactly this reason. Startups seeking to emulate wasteful and expensive packaging are convincing me they're more concerned with image than substance.
- dublinben 12y ago
  I haven't opened a recent Apple product, but they tend to have less packaging than a comparable device from many other brands.
- enraged_camel 12y ago
  >>Generally, I agree. I feel like I'm wasting my money when I unwrap something with overly "beautiful" packaging. It's a tiny fraction of my experience It may be a tiny fraction of the experience, but it is also the first impression you get of the product. Presentation matters.
- fallinghawks 12y ago
  I too feel the sense of waste. It's a box. I'm going to throw it in the trash. To me, a pricey box says, "You just spent an extra X dollars that didn't need to be spent." It's like sending a donation to a charity and they spend it by mailing you every week begging for more money. > Startups seeking to emulate wasteful and expensive packaging are convincing me they're more concerned with image than substance. We see this in new restaurants all the time. They go crazy remodeling, throw away too much money, then it opens and they don't get enough customers to pay for the lovely interior. Bye bye restaurant.
duderific 12y ago
I thought this was going to a humorous article about wrap rage, which is a pretty interesting topic. This article sounded a bit whiny to me - "I can't compete with Apple's packaging! Waah!" I don't think anyone expects a startup's packaging to be at the level of Apple, so I'm not sure the topic is all that valid.
serve_yay 12y ago
Boy oh boy.
sblawrie 12y ago
Packaging = Marketing. It's expensive, but it makes your product seem better to the end user. Yes, Apple has more money to spend on marketing, and your small startup can't compete on that front.
swalsh 12y ago
I like how they show the DK2 as boring. I got the DK1, and it came in a hard plastic case with custom foam cutout. That thing had to be fairly expensive...
germinalphrase 12y ago
In addition to cost we have significant waste. A young designer named Aaron Mickelson created a 'packaging-less' product line that was consumed as part of the product itself. Certainly, there are going to be practical concerns - but it's not a bad direction to be turning our focus. http://design-milk.com/aaron-mickelson-redesigns-consumer-packaging-eliminate-waste/ http://design-milk.com/aaron-mickelson-redesigns-consumer-pa...
- dublinben 12y ago
  Those are all really nice designs. The only criticism I have is with the final one. Some bagged tea (Celestial Seasonings, etc.) is already available in superior packaging. They use a single unwaxed carboard box for all bags. None of the bags have string or paper, making them completely compostable.
archagon 12y ago
Packaging is the real world analogue of an app icon. Your product has to grab and retain my attention within two seconds for me to give it any consideration at all. Does Apple packaging have that effect? You bet it does! Do nicely packaged Kickstarters pique my curiosity more than cardbord-box prototypes? Yes, by far. Appearances matter quite a bit, I'm afraid.
smackfu 12y ago
Reminds me a lot of their previous article: https://medium.com/@BoltVC/no-you-cant-manufacture-that-like-apple-does-93bea02a3bbf https://medium.com/@BoltVC/no-you-cant-manufacture-that-like... That one had a lot less anger, and just suggested that you should not compete with Apple in their areas of expertise, which would probably be a good idea in the field of packaging as well.
mrmondo 12y ago
Here I was ready to agree on the poor state of language specific package managers...
tsunamifury 12y ago
The author is implying that startups are Cargo-culting great design by merely copying high end packaging but not ensuring their product is actually excellent and useful. I agree to an extent, but really why not both. A great product should be a FIRST priority, then a great on boarding experience should follow just after. But maybe, just maybe -- focus on making that onboarding experience as minimal as possible, not full of needless packaging and long animated videos.
TeMPOraL 12y ago
Every time this topic pops up, I'm reminded of the scene from Continuum (I checked it out recently, it's in the third episode of the first season). There, a time traveller from the future buys a bluetooth headset and reflects on the 'ridiculous amount of packaging for something so small'. "No wonder you had a trash problem [in 20th century]". (I recommend the show strongly, btw. While often more "fi" than "sci", it has an extremely good discussion of the interaction between people, government and private interests. In the show's universe, corporations have bailed out the failing government and formed a Corporate Congress...).
sksixk 12y ago
why not a real example of a small company spending too much on packaging? hard to make an argument without one.
ginko 12y ago
One of the best unboxing experiences I had with a device was the Amazon Kindle. Simple, minimal waste (a big factor for me), and already preprogrammed to my Amazon account.
Skrypt 12y ago
I think the author focuses too much on outlier examples (Apple, Oculus). Great packaging and branding has a serious impact for companies today than previous years. More people sell online then ever before (shopify, etsy, etc) and there's no longer that brick-n-mortar experience you typically go through when buying your products in a physical shop. You buy online now and then that item is shipped to you. In many ways, the packaging IS the brick-n-mortar experience for customers when they receive your product. No one gets excited about seeing a generic brown box on their doorstep. They get excited about the fact it has Amazon Prime printed on the side with the branded tape. "Yes! My what-you-call-it just arrived!". This is the same experience that companies like Bonobos, Birchbox, Naturebox, Teespring, etc deliver. Its branded extremely well and they all care very much about delivering an extension of their brand to someones doorstep. In the case of a lot of subscription box companies, the products inside are relatively cheap to source. A large cost IS the packaging because they are delivering on an experience. Try the World's box is fucking amazing (www.trytheworld.com). It feels good opening and seeing what's in store for you this month. I'm sure the products inside cost next to nothing, but its not just about that. The author seems to make a case that Apple spends way too much on packaging (not surprising considering Steve Jobs cared about every detail inside and out). Then he uses Oculus as an example of really generic packaging that people go amazeballs for. Uh, yea we're talking about a 1 in a million type product that sold for billions, and did you see their DK1 packaging? It came in a freaking suitcase basically. I think these are both pretty outlier cases, and the norm is that great packaging can really polish a company and expand their brand and product. This is what we care about deeply at Pakible (www.pakible.com), the company I founded to help any company make beautiful packaging for their brands. Yes, typically it takes a long time to create packaging and is very costly, and that part I will admit is true. But that is also one of the things we are changing about the industry with Pakible. To not have to worry about the construction, sourcing it, designing it. We help people do that so they can focus on the rest of their business.
owly 12y ago
The worst thing about Apple packaging is the environmental impact. There is no need for so much plastic. I know they could design a recycled cardboard insert which would achieve the same design sensibilities and be a selling point to environmentally conscious consumers. STOP POISONING THE EARTH AND OCEANS!
- _jsn 12y ago
  Apple's packaging does not necessarily optimize for recyclable materials (though they do, sometimes). More importantly, they optimize for space efficiency. The last few generations of iMac come in a box that is sloped on one edge, whereas they used to be a standard rectangular prism. This unusual reduction in size allows them to tessellate the boxes in shipping and fit significantly more boxes on each airplane. This saves the company millions (literally millions of dollars from a seemingly-minor packaging change!) and also reduces the amount of jet fuel being burned to ship them around the world. Everyone wins, environment included. But yes, it is also true that your lightning cables come wrapped in a little plastic thing. It would be nice to choose a more biodegradable material for that sort of thing.
bbarn 12y ago
I might be alone in this, but I have an alternative problem with really nice packaging... The "don't waste stuff" mentality my parents instilled in me makes it really hard to throw the stuff out. I often find when I'm moving, and downsizing stuff, I'll have ignored an empty product box because it was too nice to toss when I started using the product.. the product of which, I may have long since given up on. As a result, sometimes I feel like I'm hoarding the crap, as if it's a necessity later if I want to sell it, or I'm gonna make some warranty claim on it?

87 points by tigrella 12y ago

Mithaldu 12y ago

Is it just me or is this a stealth commercial for Pencil?

paulgerhardt 12y ago
Doubtful. From what a quick scan on Crunchbase says, Bolt did not make any investments in FiftyThree (the makers of Pencil) nor do they share investors. Bolt has however made a number of investments in hardware companies that gained traction through crowdfunding. This is the audience. Not all of these companies were founded by people with backgrounds in this space, so the model they resort to when looking for "nice" is to emulate Apple. FiftyThree is a former Microsoft industrial design team so they had knowledge of how to make any kind of packaging. They serve as a great goal post for Bolt to point to as an alternative example of "nice" that's not one of their own investments. The implication here is that they are not self-promoting.

beat 12y ago

Totally disagree with this article. Talking about startup resource constraints while illustrating with the products of the biggest, most successful company in the world is more than a little disingenuous. Focusing on a great user experience includes focusing on the packaging. The experience should be totally seamless. For an upscale/luxury consumer goods company (like Apple), shoddy packaging is expensive - far more expensive than the luxury packaging whose costs the author decries. If I want a mediocre experience, I'll go to HP or Asus or something. A continuously delightful user experience buys customer loyalty. The thoughtfulness of good packaging engenders trust. If I see bad packaging, I trust the the attention to detail less for the company that made the product. If they don't care about the box, they won't care about the buttons, or the software, or the color correctness, or any of the thousands of other details that make a consumer product. Then I stop shopping for quality, and start shopping for a price point and feature list. When Apple argues that they have the best products in the world, they can point right to their packaging - they have the best packaging in the world. Best in every way. Is this good logic for a startup? Of course not! No startup has Apple's resources. A startup has to focus on ONE thing. But Apple has to focus on ALL things.

hamburglar 12y ago
Apple used to have the best packaging in the world, but lately it's been my opinion that they've lost sight of making the packaging functionally nice and are simply focusing on making it nice looking. Case in point, the incident last year where the guy first in line at the Apple store for his iPhone on release day struggled with opening the box and ended up launching his new phone onto the sidewalk in front of a news crew. Incidentally, I watched a friend do exactly the same thing the very next day. And recently, a friend and I both bought some particular apple accessory and separately commented on how difficult it was to figure out how to get it out of the box.
- beat 12y ago
  You may be right. I think there are other handling flaws in the iPhone 6 as well - enough so that it's the first iPhone I've had since my first one (iPhone 2) that I've liked less than its predecessor. I blame losing Steve Jobs and his ridiculous sensitivity to such details.
- kenrikm 12y ago
  Agree++ The iPhone 6 Packaging was terrible. Way too easy to drop the phone since it was in a really shallow groove right at the top.
  - agumonkey 12y ago
    Motorola used a similar packaging for the Moto X. Ironically, the cheaper Moto G packaging uses simple deeper cardboard folds and thus is a lot more 'secure'. See: http://imgur.com/XTNbTr7 http://imgur.com/XTNbTr7 "Being rich demands fine motor skills." -- a high end smartphone owner
    - kenrikm 12y ago
      Or if motor skills are lacking, future iCracked customer, Disclosure: I work for iCracked (YCW12).
- 12y ago

calciphus 12y ago

Generally, I agree. I feel like I'm wasting my money when I unwrap something with overly "beautiful" packaging. It's a tiny fraction of my experience, I've already bought it at this point and figuring out all the nested little components hidden away and all the custom printing is just adding to the price with expensive trash. I know it's heresy, but I hate Apple packaging for exactly this reason. Startups seeking to emulate wasteful and expensive packaging are convincing me they're more concerned with image than substance.

dublinben 12y ago
I haven't opened a recent Apple product, but they tend to have less packaging than a comparable device from many other brands.
enraged_camel 12y ago
>>Generally, I agree. I feel like I'm wasting my money when I unwrap something with overly "beautiful" packaging. It's a tiny fraction of my experience It may be a tiny fraction of the experience, but it is also the first impression you get of the product. Presentation matters.
fallinghawks 12y ago
I too feel the sense of waste. It's a box. I'm going to throw it in the trash. To me, a pricey box says, "You just spent an extra X dollars that didn't need to be spent." It's like sending a donation to a charity and they spend it by mailing you every week begging for more money. > Startups seeking to emulate wasteful and expensive packaging are convincing me they're more concerned with image than substance. We see this in new restaurants all the time. They go crazy remodeling, throw away too much money, then it opens and they don't get enough customers to pay for the lovely interior. Bye bye restaurant.

duderific 12y ago

I thought this was going to a humorous article about wrap rage, which is a pretty interesting topic. This article sounded a bit whiny to me - "I can't compete with Apple's packaging! Waah!" I don't think anyone expects a startup's packaging to be at the level of Apple, so I'm not sure the topic is all that valid.

serve_yay 12y ago

Boy oh boy.

sblawrie 12y ago

Packaging = Marketing. It's expensive, but it makes your product seem better to the end user. Yes, Apple has more money to spend on marketing, and your small startup can't compete on that front.

swalsh 12y ago

I like how they show the DK2 as boring. I got the DK1, and it came in a hard plastic case with custom foam cutout. That thing had to be fairly expensive...

germinalphrase 12y ago

In addition to cost we have significant waste. A young designer named Aaron Mickelson created a 'packaging-less' product line that was consumed as part of the product itself. Certainly, there are going to be practical concerns - but it's not a bad direction to be turning our focus. http://design-milk.com/aaron-mickelson-redesigns-consumer-packaging-eliminate-waste/ http://design-milk.com/aaron-mickelson-redesigns-consumer-pa...

dublinben 12y ago
Those are all really nice designs. The only criticism I have is with the final one. Some bagged tea (Celestial Seasonings, etc.) is already available in superior packaging. They use a single unwaxed carboard box for all bags. None of the bags have string or paper, making them completely compostable.

archagon 12y ago

Packaging is the real world analogue of an app icon. Your product has to grab and retain my attention within two seconds for me to give it any consideration at all. Does Apple packaging have that effect? You bet it does! Do nicely packaged Kickstarters pique my curiosity more than cardbord-box prototypes? Yes, by far. Appearances matter quite a bit, I'm afraid.

smackfu 12y ago

Reminds me a lot of their previous article: https://medium.com/@BoltVC/no-you-cant-manufacture-that-like-apple-does-93bea02a3bbf https://medium.com/@BoltVC/no-you-cant-manufacture-that-like... That one had a lot less anger, and just suggested that you should not compete with Apple in their areas of expertise, which would probably be a good idea in the field of packaging as well.

mrmondo 12y ago

Here I was ready to agree on the poor state of language specific package managers...

tsunamifury 12y ago

The author is implying that startups are Cargo-culting great design by merely copying high end packaging but not ensuring their product is actually excellent and useful. I agree to an extent, but really why not both. A great product should be a FIRST priority, then a great on boarding experience should follow just after. But maybe, just maybe -- focus on making that onboarding experience as minimal as possible, not full of needless packaging and long animated videos.

TeMPOraL 12y ago

Every time this topic pops up, I'm reminded of the scene from Continuum (I checked it out recently, it's in the third episode of the first season). There, a time traveller from the future buys a bluetooth headset and reflects on the 'ridiculous amount of packaging for something so small'. "No wonder you had a trash problem [in 20th century]". (I recommend the show strongly, btw. While often more "fi" than "sci", it has an extremely good discussion of the interaction between people, government and private interests. In the show's universe, corporations have bailed out the failing government and formed a Corporate Congress...).

sksixk 12y ago

why not a real example of a small company spending too much on packaging? hard to make an argument without one.

ginko 12y ago

One of the best unboxing experiences I had with a device was the Amazon Kindle. Simple, minimal waste (a big factor for me), and already preprogrammed to my Amazon account.

Skrypt 12y ago

I think the author focuses too much on outlier examples (Apple, Oculus). Great packaging and branding has a serious impact for companies today than previous years. More people sell online then ever before (shopify, etsy, etc) and there's no longer that brick-n-mortar experience you typically go through when buying your products in a physical shop. You buy online now and then that item is shipped to you. In many ways, the packaging IS the brick-n-mortar experience for customers when they receive your product. No one gets excited about seeing a generic brown box on their doorstep. They get excited about the fact it has Amazon Prime printed on the side with the branded tape. "Yes! My what-you-call-it just arrived!". This is the same experience that companies like Bonobos, Birchbox, Naturebox, Teespring, etc deliver. Its branded extremely well and they all care very much about delivering an extension of their brand to someones doorstep. In the case of a lot of subscription box companies, the products inside are relatively cheap to source. A large cost IS the packaging because they are delivering on an experience. Try the World's box is fucking amazing (www.trytheworld.com). It feels good opening and seeing what's in store for you this month. I'm sure the products inside cost next to nothing, but its not just about that. The author seems to make a case that Apple spends way too much on packaging (not surprising considering Steve Jobs cared about every detail inside and out). Then he uses Oculus as an example of really generic packaging that people go amazeballs for. Uh, yea we're talking about a 1 in a million type product that sold for billions, and did you see their DK1 packaging? It came in a freaking suitcase basically. I think these are both pretty outlier cases, and the norm is that great packaging can really polish a company and expand their brand and product. This is what we care about deeply at Pakible (www.pakible.com), the company I founded to help any company make beautiful packaging for their brands. Yes, typically it takes a long time to create packaging and is very costly, and that part I will admit is true. But that is also one of the things we are changing about the industry with Pakible. To not have to worry about the construction, sourcing it, designing it. We help people do that so they can focus on the rest of their business.

owly 12y ago

The worst thing about Apple packaging is the environmental impact. There is no need for so much plastic. I know they could design a recycled cardboard insert which would achieve the same design sensibilities and be a selling point to environmentally conscious consumers. STOP POISONING THE EARTH AND OCEANS!

_jsn 12y ago
Apple's packaging does not necessarily optimize for recyclable materials (though they do, sometimes). More importantly, they optimize for space efficiency. The last few generations of iMac come in a box that is sloped on one edge, whereas they used to be a standard rectangular prism. This unusual reduction in size allows them to tessellate the boxes in shipping and fit significantly more boxes on each airplane. This saves the company millions (literally millions of dollars from a seemingly-minor packaging change!) and also reduces the amount of jet fuel being burned to ship them around the world. Everyone wins, environment included. But yes, it is also true that your lightning cables come wrapped in a little plastic thing. It would be nice to choose a more biodegradable material for that sort of thing.

bbarn 12y ago

I might be alone in this, but I have an alternative problem with really nice packaging... The "don't waste stuff" mentality my parents instilled in me makes it really hard to throw the stuff out. I often find when I'm moving, and downsizing stuff, I'll have ignored an empty product box because it was too nice to toss when I started using the product.. the product of which, I may have long since given up on. As a result, sometimes I feel like I'm hoarding the crap, as if it's a necessity later if I want to sell it, or I'm gonna make some warranty claim on it?