4 ms·

We just don't want to have special policies for special people. All developers are equal and it will look strange to give 20% free time back for a single develo

by tablet 12y ago

We just don't want to have special policies for special people. All developers are equal and it will look strange to give 20% free time back for a single developer and hold this for all other developers.

danreedx86 12y ago
maybe you should just give everyone 20% time then? you could compromise, one day every other week?
icedchai 12y ago
That sounds nice in theory, but they're not all equal. Some are much more productive, knowledgeable, etc. Look at it this way: You can give him 20% time or he'll give you 0%.
cujo 12y ago
Are you going to go through this dilemma for all your developers when they consider jumping ship at various points of their careers? Probably not, so you're already doing something special for this person. Since you seem to be intent on being a robot with regard to personnel decisions, there is only one question to answer: Is your company going to go down the tubes if he/she leaves? If so, do what you can to keep them. If not, cut ties and move on. As an aside, I find it humorous that you're consulting an anonymous online message board for this type of advice. Surely you've handled more difficult problems than this in growing to a 50 person company?
hawkice 12y ago
It's not unusual for upper management to have discretion and a budget. Forget side projects -- work with him to find an important and interesting thing you won't micromanage at all. Perhaps importantly: maybe "lead" roles no longer have any meaning, but if you are determining the engineering schedule months in advance, in enough detail for him to know it won't be interesting to work on, he could be frustrated by the micromanagement (whether it is real or only perceived is something I cannot know).
peri 12y ago
This is a great way to lose special people
- tablet 12y ago
  So Prime Minister can kill people for no punishment? Great developers have high salary, all other benefits are equal.
  - icedchai 12y ago
    Yeah, unfortunately the high salary is still not proportional to abilities. You get maybe 30 or 40% more for being 2 to 3x as useful (we'll forget about the mythical 10x-ers for now.) Does this seem fair?
    - tablet 12y ago
      It is really hard to measure developers productivity and nobody knows how to do that with a good precision. But in general I agree that top developers should be paid good money, like 2 times less then CEO.
    - imdsm 12y ago
      This has always perplexed me. You could hire a junior on say 10,000 credits who could produce 10 units of work per week. You could then hire someone more experienced, on 25,000 credits, but they could produce 50 units of work per week. You could then hire seniors and pay them 40,000 credits, but they're producing 200 units of work per week. Why is it fair to increase the wage so slowly? Either less experienced developers are not worth the money to begin with or someone, somewhere has an idea of what the max cap of a developer is, and sticks to it.
  - WorldWideWayne 12y ago
    Equating 20% time to murder seems like a bit of an overreaction. Do you do that often? Anyway, you're asking a room full of developers what they would want and they're telling you. 20% time is a solution that works. Toiling away on the same problem day after day sucks and it gets boring. 20% time breaks up the drudgery. I suspect that you don't want to solve the developer's problems though, just your own.
wilsynet 12y ago
One of the things you realize after you get some experience as a manager is that not everyone is equal, so not everyone needs to be treated equally. It's a tech company, not the drive thru line at McDonalds. People leave for a lot of reasons, and not having opportunities to grow is one of them. You want to be equal? Everyone with the title Senior Staff Engineer gets to work on super awesome forward looking new space car. Or maybe just 20% time and a ton more stock options.
bmj 12y ago
There's a good comment down-thread about 20% time. You don't have to say "go and do whatever you want." It can be about "non-billable" R&D. Perhaps this developer sees an issue, or a potential optimization, or even a new product or service, but never has time to develop it. This arrangement allows both of you to get what you want. As far as "special treatment" goes, why not extend this to all the leads? It seems reasonable to have these folks pushing the technical boundaries for the company.
Lawtonfogle 12y ago
>All developers are equal In which case let them leave and replace them with another equal developer. Though I am confused as to why you call them one of your best and yet say all developers are equal.
- mrcold 12y ago
  Best when it comes to skills. Equal when it comes to pay, benefits and professional relationship. That's how most companies see it anyway.
  - peri 12y ago
    There are lots of ways to make people feel good while keeping pay, benefits, and professional relationships professional. Not knowing where OP is from or where their company operates, I'd give them wide deference in terms of ensuring they follow the law, but talking to an HR professional (who should be involved at this point anyway if there are dozens of folks) can give a lot of good ideas on how to make people feel special without breaching contracts. As a practical example, Dynamighty listed every full time Dynamighty worker in alphabetical order on CounterSpy, but then called out individuals by their major contributions within the longer credits. It's not a perfect system, but it provided a good balance between giving due credit to folks who worked long hours for equity and those who were making normal salaries the whole time.
perdunov 12y ago
Why is he "lead" then, if he's not special?
sjs382 12y ago
Special policies are for special people. And all developers are not equal, but you know this. Treating them as such is destructive.
smileysteve 12y ago
Important that 20% time can be beneficial to your entire team. And this doesn't have to be absolutely free, it can be tangentially related to something that at least sort of aligns to your company - whether internal (support, communication, internal fun) or external (product, trying new platforms / technologies). And it doesn't have to start at 20%; if your core product can't afford everybody to take 20% time toward interesting things, then 10%.

by tablet 12y ago

danreedx86 12y ago

maybe you should just give everyone 20% time then? you could compromise, one day every other week?

icedchai 12y ago

That sounds nice in theory, but they're not all equal. Some are much more productive, knowledgeable, etc. Look at it this way: You can give him 20% time or he'll give you 0%.

cujo 12y ago

Are you going to go through this dilemma for all your developers when they consider jumping ship at various points of their careers? Probably not, so you're already doing something special for this person. Since you seem to be intent on being a robot with regard to personnel decisions, there is only one question to answer: Is your company going to go down the tubes if he/she leaves? If so, do what you can to keep them. If not, cut ties and move on. As an aside, I find it humorous that you're consulting an anonymous online message board for this type of advice. Surely you've handled more difficult problems than this in growing to a 50 person company?

hawkice 12y ago

It's not unusual for upper management to have discretion and a budget. Forget side projects -- work with him to find an important and interesting thing you won't micromanage at all. Perhaps importantly: maybe "lead" roles no longer have any meaning, but if you are determining the engineering schedule months in advance, in enough detail for him to know it won't be interesting to work on, he could be frustrated by the micromanagement (whether it is real or only perceived is something I cannot know).

peri 12y ago

This is a great way to lose special people

tablet 12y ago
So Prime Minister can kill people for no punishment? Great developers have high salary, all other benefits are equal.
- icedchai 12y ago
  Yeah, unfortunately the high salary is still not proportional to abilities. You get maybe 30 or 40% more for being 2 to 3x as useful (we'll forget about the mythical 10x-ers for now.) Does this seem fair?
  - tablet 12y ago
    It is really hard to measure developers productivity and nobody knows how to do that with a good precision. But in general I agree that top developers should be paid good money, like 2 times less then CEO.
  - imdsm 12y ago
    This has always perplexed me. You could hire a junior on say 10,000 credits who could produce 10 units of work per week. You could then hire someone more experienced, on 25,000 credits, but they could produce 50 units of work per week. You could then hire seniors and pay them 40,000 credits, but they're producing 200 units of work per week. Why is it fair to increase the wage so slowly? Either less experienced developers are not worth the money to begin with or someone, somewhere has an idea of what the max cap of a developer is, and sticks to it.
- WorldWideWayne 12y ago
  Equating 20% time to murder seems like a bit of an overreaction. Do you do that often? Anyway, you're asking a room full of developers what they would want and they're telling you. 20% time is a solution that works. Toiling away on the same problem day after day sucks and it gets boring. 20% time breaks up the drudgery. I suspect that you don't want to solve the developer's problems though, just your own.

wilsynet 12y ago

One of the things you realize after you get some experience as a manager is that not everyone is equal, so not everyone needs to be treated equally. It's a tech company, not the drive thru line at McDonalds. People leave for a lot of reasons, and not having opportunities to grow is one of them. You want to be equal? Everyone with the title Senior Staff Engineer gets to work on super awesome forward looking new space car. Or maybe just 20% time and a ton more stock options.

bmj 12y ago

There's a good comment down-thread about 20% time. You don't have to say "go and do whatever you want." It can be about "non-billable" R&D. Perhaps this developer sees an issue, or a potential optimization, or even a new product or service, but never has time to develop it. This arrangement allows both of you to get what you want. As far as "special treatment" goes, why not extend this to all the leads? It seems reasonable to have these folks pushing the technical boundaries for the company.

Lawtonfogle 12y ago

>All developers are equal In which case let them leave and replace them with another equal developer. Though I am confused as to why you call them one of your best and yet say all developers are equal.

mrcold 12y ago
Best when it comes to skills. Equal when it comes to pay, benefits and professional relationship. That's how most companies see it anyway.
- peri 12y ago
  There are lots of ways to make people feel good while keeping pay, benefits, and professional relationships professional. Not knowing where OP is from or where their company operates, I'd give them wide deference in terms of ensuring they follow the law, but talking to an HR professional (who should be involved at this point anyway if there are dozens of folks) can give a lot of good ideas on how to make people feel special without breaching contracts. As a practical example, Dynamighty listed every full time Dynamighty worker in alphabetical order on CounterSpy, but then called out individuals by their major contributions within the longer credits. It's not a perfect system, but it provided a good balance between giving due credit to folks who worked long hours for equity and those who were making normal salaries the whole time.

perdunov 12y ago

Why is he "lead" then, if he's not special?

sjs382 12y ago

Special policies are for special people. And all developers are not equal, but you know this. Treating them as such is destructive.

smileysteve 12y ago

Important that 20% time can be beneficial to your entire team. And this doesn't have to be absolutely free, it can be tangentially related to something that at least sort of aligns to your company - whether internal (support, communication, internal fun) or external (product, trying new platforms / technologies). And it doesn't have to start at 20%; if your core product can't afford everybody to take 20% time toward interesting things, then 10%.