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Why can't we just code like professionals ? Sidenote: Disclaimer: I was heavily influenced by my Biology professors. I don't think society evolved in vacuum se

by MollyR 12y ago

Why can't we just code like professionals ? Sidenote: Disclaimer: I was heavily influenced by my Biology professors. I don't think society evolved in vacuum separate from genetic evolution. So while I don't appreciate insulting people by gender. I do however think there are gender differences. Another person on HN linked me to this documentary, which opened my mind. https://vimeo.com/19707588 https://vimeo.com/19707588

liotier 12y ago
> Why can't we just code like professionals ? Because we put our heart in it - so we code like amateurs. The best professionals are amateurs who just happen to be paid.
- MollyR 12y ago
  Is it fair to say putting your heart into something makes you an amateur at something ? I dunno, this feels off. Did I misunderstand the analogy ?
  - kazinator 12y ago
    The professional puts the customer's heart into something, not his own. My heart says I should spend the next ten weeks optimizing this interesting function that gets called once a year, because all higher priority tasks look like boring grunt work.
    - liotier 12y ago
      > The professional puts the customer's heart into something, not his own. I like your definition - it puts authenticity in caring for one's partner at the center of the professional relation... First time in a long time that I read "professional" and it does not ring empty !
  - liotier 12y ago
    > Is it fair to say putting your heart into something makes you an amateur at something ? Yes, that is the etymology of the word 'amateur' : 1784, "one who has a taste for (something)," from French amateur "lover of," from Latin amatorem (nominative amator) "lover," agent noun from amatus, past participle of amare "to love" - http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=amateur http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=amateur Later this word has been used derogatorily, but it is not its original meaning. When people use 'amateur' derogatorily, I believe that 'dilettante' is the more accurate word.
    - MollyR 12y ago
      Thanks, you're one of the reasons I like hackernews. I learn something new every day!
rmc 12y ago
> Why can't we just code like professionals ? What does that mean? Suit and tie? Clean shaven, short back and sides?
- MollyR 12y ago
  I guess not professional appearance but professional standards. Ex.I might expect a professional python programmer to follow PEP8 code style. I think rather than coding like boy or coding like girl, we should be aspiring to be professional or at least competent . That's the far bigger and inclusive problem.
- kazinator 12y ago
  Professional means getting paid, but there is a nuance of doing a proper job to deserve pay (even if there is no pay); a FOSS project that hasn't received even a dime in donations can be professionally developed.
levosmetalo 12y ago
> Why can't we just code like professionals ? That would pretty much mean the death of almost every open source project that depends on unpaid amateurs.
detcader 12y ago
Have you read "Delusions of Gender" by Cordelia Fine?
- MollyR 12y ago
  Nope. I'll add it to the reading list. However as I'm usually short on time, I'd prefer to just read the scientific articles for myself. Do you have any notable scientific articles from the book references to recommend ?
  - detcader 12y ago
    The book has a Wikipedia page explaining what it is; it is an original scientific work, not a wrapper for other people's articles.
    - MollyR 12y ago
      I gotta say my enthusiasm is significantly dulled. I prefer scientific articles, because they tend to be peer-reviewed, and have a testable null hypothesis. Its also why I avoid books like outliers by malcolm gladwell. Thanks for the recommendation, I'll probably check it out eventually.
    - Lawtonfogle 12y ago
      >it is an original scientific work What does this even mean really? That they did a bunch of research and instead of writing numerous papers wrong a single book? Does it give a detailed explanation of each experiment enough so that they can be repeated? Or is it like those pop-sci books that take a few specifically picked studies, a lot of anecdotes, and a few 'expert' interviews and try to get the average reader convinced on a point (which may or may not be correct)?

by MollyR 12y ago

liotier 12y ago

> Why can't we just code like professionals ? Because we put our heart in it - so we code like amateurs. The best professionals are amateurs who just happen to be paid.

MollyR 12y ago
Is it fair to say putting your heart into something makes you an amateur at something ? I dunno, this feels off. Did I misunderstand the analogy ?
- kazinator 12y ago
  The professional puts the customer's heart into something, not his own. My heart says I should spend the next ten weeks optimizing this interesting function that gets called once a year, because all higher priority tasks look like boring grunt work.
  - liotier 12y ago
    > The professional puts the customer's heart into something, not his own. I like your definition - it puts authenticity in caring for one's partner at the center of the professional relation... First time in a long time that I read "professional" and it does not ring empty !
- liotier 12y ago
  > Is it fair to say putting your heart into something makes you an amateur at something ? Yes, that is the etymology of the word 'amateur' : 1784, "one who has a taste for (something)," from French amateur "lover of," from Latin amatorem (nominative amator) "lover," agent noun from amatus, past participle of amare "to love" - http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=amateur http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=amateur Later this word has been used derogatorily, but it is not its original meaning. When people use 'amateur' derogatorily, I believe that 'dilettante' is the more accurate word.
  - MollyR 12y ago
    Thanks, you're one of the reasons I like hackernews. I learn something new every day!

rmc 12y ago

> Why can't we just code like professionals ? What does that mean? Suit and tie? Clean shaven, short back and sides?

MollyR 12y ago
I guess not professional appearance but professional standards. Ex.I might expect a professional python programmer to follow PEP8 code style. I think rather than coding like boy or coding like girl, we should be aspiring to be professional or at least competent . That's the far bigger and inclusive problem.
kazinator 12y ago
Professional means getting paid, but there is a nuance of doing a proper job to deserve pay (even if there is no pay); a FOSS project that hasn't received even a dime in donations can be professionally developed.

levosmetalo 12y ago

> Why can't we just code like professionals ? That would pretty much mean the death of almost every open source project that depends on unpaid amateurs.

detcader 12y ago

Have you read "Delusions of Gender" by Cordelia Fine?

MollyR 12y ago
Nope. I'll add it to the reading list. However as I'm usually short on time, I'd prefer to just read the scientific articles for myself. Do you have any notable scientific articles from the book references to recommend ?
- detcader 12y ago
  The book has a Wikipedia page explaining what it is; it is an original scientific work, not a wrapper for other people's articles.
  - MollyR 12y ago
    I gotta say my enthusiasm is significantly dulled. I prefer scientific articles, because they tend to be peer-reviewed, and have a testable null hypothesis. Its also why I avoid books like outliers by malcolm gladwell. Thanks for the recommendation, I'll probably check it out eventually.
  - Lawtonfogle 12y ago
    >it is an original scientific work What does this even mean really? That they did a bunch of research and instead of writing numerous papers wrong a single book? Does it give a detailed explanation of each experiment enough so that they can be repeated? Or is it like those pop-sci books that take a few specifically picked studies, a lot of anecdotes, and a few 'expert' interviews and try to get the average reader convinced on a point (which may or may not be correct)?