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I agree with you but would quibble on one thing "women are about as financially independent as men"... I would say that women are about 70-80% as financially in

I agree with you but would quibble on one thing "women are about as financially independent as men"... I would say that women are about 70-80% as financially independent as men, due to the gender pay gap. That gap is even higher if you consider women's under representation in high paying jobs (e.g. tech). However... That's light years better the past when women were essentially considered to be the property of their father or husband.

chadzawistowski 12y ago
If you're going to name figures I think you ought to cite sources rather than just guessing.
- innguest 12y ago
  He's alluding to the old 77% canard which has already been debunked. There's no pay gap between genders, the pay gap is between women who never married and women who have married at some point regardless of present status. Something else he gets wrong is this "under representation in high paying jobs" canard. That's bad approximation again. The under-representation is in thing-oriented jobs versus relationship-oriented jobs. In Sweden, in all their equality, we still see mostly male engineers and mostly female nurses. It just happens that thing-oriented jobs pay more.
  - refurb 12y ago
    I'm assuming you're being downvoted for your flippant response, but you raise a good point. I can't find the source, but an article was laying out that despite all of the social benefits offered to women in Scandinavian countries (child care, generous time off, etc) a lot of women were choosing not to work. That obviously skews the "pay gap".
unethical_ban 12y ago
I didn't downvote you, but I can see why others did. Unequal pay doesn't mean unequal independence. I'm in debt with a middle class job. I'm just as financially independent (in the short term) as someone making $250k, or someone with no debt making 60% of what I do.
Alex3917 12y ago
> I would say that women are about 70-80% as financially independent as men, due to the gender pay gap. That pay gap is for all women, not unmarried women. Young unmarried women living in cities generally make more money than men.
seany 12y ago
The gender pay gap is a myth. Even major publications refute it http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-that-we-end-the-equal-pay-myth/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-tha... http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023035327045794837...
- nl 12y ago
  That's not what it says at all. Pulling quotes from the Forbes article: According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, full-time working women earned 81 percent of what full-time working men earned in 2010... The wage gap statistic, however, doesn’t compare two similarly situated co-workers of different sexes, working in the same industry, performing the same work, for the same number of hours a day. It merely reflects the median earnings of all men and women classified as full-time workers.... the average full-time working man spends 8.14 hours a day on the job, compared to 7.75 hours for the full-time working woman So yes. The wage gap is real. But no, it doesn't necessarily mean that women are paid less for the same work. In the context of this conversation, about the financial independence of women that 81% figure seems entirely appropriate. It's fair to argue about the reasons for it, but that doesn't seem relevant to the facts relating the financial independence of women vs men.
  - AnthonyMouse 12y ago
    > In the context of this conversation, about the financial independence of women that 81% figure seems entirely appropriate. It's fair to argue about the reasons for it, but that doesn't seem relevant to the facts relating the financial independence of women vs men. The reasons for it are extremely relevant. If the pay gap is primarily a result of factors outside of an individual's control (e.g. sex discrimination) then it makes women less independent, but if all a woman has to do to make the same money as a man is to work the same job in the same way then she has the same level of independence, regardless of whether other women choose lower paying jobs.
    - nl 12y ago
brc 12y ago
Unfortunately, for many millions of women, even in western countries, this is still the case - treated as property.

chadzawistowski 12y ago

If you're going to name figures I think you ought to cite sources rather than just guessing.

innguest 12y ago
He's alluding to the old 77% canard which has already been debunked. There's no pay gap between genders, the pay gap is between women who never married and women who have married at some point regardless of present status. Something else he gets wrong is this "under representation in high paying jobs" canard. That's bad approximation again. The under-representation is in thing-oriented jobs versus relationship-oriented jobs. In Sweden, in all their equality, we still see mostly male engineers and mostly female nurses. It just happens that thing-oriented jobs pay more.
- refurb 12y ago
  I'm assuming you're being downvoted for your flippant response, but you raise a good point. I can't find the source, but an article was laying out that despite all of the social benefits offered to women in Scandinavian countries (child care, generous time off, etc) a lot of women were choosing not to work. That obviously skews the "pay gap".

unethical_ban 12y ago

I didn't downvote you, but I can see why others did. Unequal pay doesn't mean unequal independence. I'm in debt with a middle class job. I'm just as financially independent (in the short term) as someone making $250k, or someone with no debt making 60% of what I do.

Alex3917 12y ago

> I would say that women are about 70-80% as financially independent as men, due to the gender pay gap. That pay gap is for all women, not unmarried women. Young unmarried women living in cities generally make more money than men.

seany 12y ago

The gender pay gap is a myth. Even major publications refute it http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-that-we-end-the-equal-pay-myth/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-tha... http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023035327045794837...

nl 12y ago
That's not what it says at all. Pulling quotes from the Forbes article: According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, full-time working women earned 81 percent of what full-time working men earned in 2010... The wage gap statistic, however, doesn’t compare two similarly situated co-workers of different sexes, working in the same industry, performing the same work, for the same number of hours a day. It merely reflects the median earnings of all men and women classified as full-time workers.... the average full-time working man spends 8.14 hours a day on the job, compared to 7.75 hours for the full-time working woman So yes. The wage gap is real. But no, it doesn't necessarily mean that women are paid less for the same work. In the context of this conversation, about the financial independence of women that 81% figure seems entirely appropriate. It's fair to argue about the reasons for it, but that doesn't seem relevant to the facts relating the financial independence of women vs men.
- AnthonyMouse 12y ago
  > In the context of this conversation, about the financial independence of women that 81% figure seems entirely appropriate. It's fair to argue about the reasons for it, but that doesn't seem relevant to the facts relating the financial independence of women vs men. The reasons for it are extremely relevant. If the pay gap is primarily a result of factors outside of an individual's control (e.g. sex discrimination) then it makes women less independent, but if all a woman has to do to make the same money as a man is to work the same job in the same way then she has the same level of independence, regardless of whether other women choose lower paying jobs.
  - nl 12y ago

brc 12y ago

Unfortunately, for many millions of women, even in western countries, this is still the case - treated as property.