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Disclaimer: I'm the author of an open source bug tracker, BugTracker.NET, a sorta hobby project that got better over time and sorta, kinda, "competes" with FogB

by ctrager 17y ago

Disclaimer: I'm the author of an open source bug tracker, BugTracker.NET, a sorta hobby project that got better over time and sorta, kinda, "competes" with FogBugz. Also, I receive money from Atlassian to display their ads on my website, but other than that, I know nothing about their business. So, I'm not any sort of insider. But I do pay attention to the space, and here's my two cents. Some of the income for these companies comes from the hosted versions of their apps. I think free and somewhat viral services like GitHub put a lot of pressure on Atlassian and FogCreek. 1) Downward pressure on what they can charge. Consider Atlassian's recent price drop. and 2) Classic Joel "Fire and Motion" pressure to match the competition's features. Kiln is FogCreek returning defensive fire. Not to mention less viral players but really nice playes in the hosted space like Unfuddle, Assembla. Christ, even Google. So, along with hosted apps, some of the income comes from installed software. There, both companies compete against open source, like Trac, Redmine, and even my own BugTracker.NET. Traditionally some stodgier companies have tended to be fearful about running open source alternatives, but there might be a generational change going on. There could be a tipping point where open source developer tools start being perceived even by the stodgier companies as being the more comfortable, safe, mainstream choice. Safer than commercial. That might already be happening with version control.

ghshephard 17y ago
Note: Atlassian just increased their prices. Our legal department was going to use their professional 3.x license to manage issues for 300 employees (You'd be amazed at how far people push Jira - a nominal software defect tracker is used by my company as a ticketing system, time tracker, project management system - we've got north of 20,000 issues entered and tracked through it) - The previous price was $2400 on a quote expiring on Oct 24th. The New quote (for 4.0 "Enterprise" - no more professional) is $8,000. Both Cheap, but the new prices certainly aren't a decrease. I doubt that many enterprise size companies (100+ employee companies) host their issues at either FogBuz or Atlassian. Security. I'm betting the vast (90%+?) of their revenue comes from license sales. BTW - Don't forget Bugzilla as a bug tracker - we were quite happy with it until we switched to Jira (ironic if you know where the name comes from). And you are right - Generational Change is happening. Right now. All of the people who where in their 20s and 30s In the late 90s, are now Managers, and Directors - and have some clue about open source, so it's coming into companies from the top, and bottom now.
- ctrager 17y ago
  You are contradicting my unsupported opinions using actual facts? That's not fair. Regarding "You'd be amazed": No,I wouldn't. Whatever the humble origins of a bug tracker, user pressure does push them to accrete more features and complexity, so even my own little BugTracker.NET also has evolevd to be also a ticketing system, time tracker, and a tiny bit as a project management system. (Please let's not talk about permissions and customizable, enforcable, workflow...) Here's my favorite way I've seen BugTracker.NET stretched: http://frap.cdf.ca.gov/projects/hazard/btnet/bugs.aspx http://frap.cdf.ca.gov/projects/hazard/btnet/bugs.aspx, by the "California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection". You're probably right about the 90% for now, but I think the Generational Change thing also affects attitudes towards hosted versus installed. And, you have more and more big companies whose OWN business depends on THEIR customers trusting THEM to host their customers data, so I think that is a force for attitudes about hosted solutions changing too. I work for a company that makes software for futures traders. Our customers include the trading depts of the biggest banks you can name. Presumably security conscious and with the expertise to manage the software/hardware themselves if they chose to. We offer both installable and hosted solutions. Plenty of these big banks have opted for the hosted solution.
  - sireat 17y ago
    Zawinski's Law of Software Envelopment: Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can. http://en.wikipedia.or/wiki/Zawinski%27s_law_of_software_envelopment#Quotes http://en.wikipedia.or/wiki/Zawinski%27s_law_of_software_env...
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]

by ctrager 17y ago

ghshephard 17y ago

Note: Atlassian just increased their prices. Our legal department was going to use their professional 3.x license to manage issues for 300 employees (You'd be amazed at how far people push Jira - a nominal software defect tracker is used by my company as a ticketing system, time tracker, project management system - we've got north of 20,000 issues entered and tracked through it) - The previous price was $2400 on a quote expiring on Oct 24th. The New quote (for 4.0 "Enterprise" - no more professional) is $8,000. Both Cheap, but the new prices certainly aren't a decrease. I doubt that many enterprise size companies (100+ employee companies) host their issues at either FogBuz or Atlassian. Security. I'm betting the vast (90%+?) of their revenue comes from license sales. BTW - Don't forget Bugzilla as a bug tracker - we were quite happy with it until we switched to Jira (ironic if you know where the name comes from). And you are right - Generational Change is happening. Right now. All of the people who where in their 20s and 30s In the late 90s, are now Managers, and Directors - and have some clue about open source, so it's coming into companies from the top, and bottom now.

ctrager 17y ago
You are contradicting my unsupported opinions using actual facts? That's not fair. Regarding "You'd be amazed": No,I wouldn't. Whatever the humble origins of a bug tracker, user pressure does push them to accrete more features and complexity, so even my own little BugTracker.NET also has evolevd to be also a ticketing system, time tracker, and a tiny bit as a project management system. (Please let's not talk about permissions and customizable, enforcable, workflow...) Here's my favorite way I've seen BugTracker.NET stretched: http://frap.cdf.ca.gov/projects/hazard/btnet/bugs.aspx http://frap.cdf.ca.gov/projects/hazard/btnet/bugs.aspx, by the "California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection". You're probably right about the 90% for now, but I think the Generational Change thing also affects attitudes towards hosted versus installed. And, you have more and more big companies whose OWN business depends on THEIR customers trusting THEM to host their customers data, so I think that is a force for attitudes about hosted solutions changing too. I work for a company that makes software for futures traders. Our customers include the trading depts of the biggest banks you can name. Presumably security conscious and with the expertise to manage the software/hardware themselves if they chose to. We offer both installable and hosted solutions. Plenty of these big banks have opted for the hosted solution.
- sireat 17y ago
  Zawinski's Law of Software Envelopment: Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can. http://en.wikipedia.or/wiki/Zawinski%27s_law_of_software_envelopment#Quotes http://en.wikipedia.or/wiki/Zawinski%27s_law_of_software_env...
deleted 17y ago
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