8 ms·

Under "common behaviours of our ideal candidate" in the HR doc posted: > 8. Just a nice dude It seems obvious to me that this is outright illegal gender discr

Under "common behaviours of our ideal candidate" in the HR doc posted: > 8. Just a nice dude It seems obvious to me that this is outright illegal gender discrimination, am I wrong?

Xophmeister 12y ago
"Dude" doesn't necessarily imply male, but it is strongly slanted that way. I'm not sure if it would hold up as discrimination.
- jeeva 12y ago
  Yeah, I always see this sort of comment and worry that I'm the only person using guys/dude/folks as a catch-all. Quickly Googling seems to indicate that it's not set in stone, at least.
  - codezero 12y ago
    It's something to be aware of and to try to avoid. It may be casually acceptable, but consider it from a female candidates point of view. Having been frequently confronted with exclusionary language the assumption is likely to be that this usage does imply male-only. I'm not saying you or anyone implies that, but it's good to be aware of so you can avoid unintended discrimination. It takes almost no effort to modify these word choices to be inclusive.
- erroneousfunk 12y ago
  It typically applies only to males, and historically has only referred to males. If I were a female thinking about applying for this job, I would certainly be taken aback by it. While you might refer to a mixed-gendered group as "dudes" it seems odd to refer to a single female as a "dude"
  - vonmoltke 12y ago
    My wife and her female cousin-in-law do it to each other all the time. That said, I agree it's not appropriate for a job req and understand why it turns women off from applying.
- s73v3r 12y ago
  While it might not hold up as being against the law, it likely would deter many females from applying.
  - glittershark 12y ago
    Referring to women as "females" probably won't help, either
    - s73v3r 12y ago
      Agreed.
sebular 12y ago
You're not wrong at all. Furthermore: > 2. Under 30 years old Is obviously age discrimination as well. Unlike some people, I'm under no illusions that tech is non-discriminatory, but it's still surprising and disappointing to see it stated so plainly on a job description. These people are idiots for leaving this document online now that they've been caught. I don't know the specifics of UK labour laws, but in the US its mere existence would be grounds for a lawsuit.
- detaro 12y ago
  They only need "Fast and accurate proficiency" in being under 30 years old ;) (so someone who just turned 30 is probably best, having the 30 years experience with being under 30)
- andyjohnson0 12y ago
  "The Equality Act 2010 makes it unlawful to discriminate against employees, job seekers and trainees because of their age." [1] [1] http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1841 http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1841
  - vasilipupkin 12y ago
    Wait, UK only adopted this in 2010? Sorry, I am surprised by that
    - philh 12y ago
      Not necessarily. That Act might be an update to a previously-existing one that also forbade gender discrimination.
    - gaius 12y ago
      The 2010 Act just merges the laws from the 1970s (equal pay, race relations, etc) into a single law. It was an exercise in tidying up the statute books.
    - celticninja 12y ago
slgeorge 12y ago
Yeah you can't ask that. When you read the rest of the document it's clear the 'job definition' has been done by someone whose not a HR professional. It's probably a tech or developer whose inexperienced. The only thing I'll say in defense of it is that this isn't as unusual as you might expect - even if they don't write it a lot of people probably use heuristics like this, unfortunately!
- mercurial 12y ago
  > by someone whose not a HR professional No need to require HR skills when basic English proficiency is lacking. What does "work in a team of all current developers" even means? Don't get me started on "Conscientious and committed to a certain task where they decided to commit themselves", that's positively Shakespearian. Was this written by a real person using Google Translate, or by a bot? Oh, and what the hell is a "MagicPitch"?
s73v3r 12y ago
Dude can sometimes be used to refer to people of both genders. Although in a professional job posting, there are dozens of words that would be more explicitly gender-neutral and a better choice.

Under "common behaviours of our ideal candidate" in the HR doc posted: > 8. Just a nice dude It seems obvious to me that this is outright illegal gender discrimination, am I wrong?

Xophmeister 12y ago

"Dude" doesn't necessarily imply male, but it is strongly slanted that way. I'm not sure if it would hold up as discrimination.

jeeva 12y ago
Yeah, I always see this sort of comment and worry that I'm the only person using guys/dude/folks as a catch-all. Quickly Googling seems to indicate that it's not set in stone, at least.
- codezero 12y ago
  It's something to be aware of and to try to avoid. It may be casually acceptable, but consider it from a female candidates point of view. Having been frequently confronted with exclusionary language the assumption is likely to be that this usage does imply male-only. I'm not saying you or anyone implies that, but it's good to be aware of so you can avoid unintended discrimination. It takes almost no effort to modify these word choices to be inclusive.
erroneousfunk 12y ago
It typically applies only to males, and historically has only referred to males. If I were a female thinking about applying for this job, I would certainly be taken aback by it. While you might refer to a mixed-gendered group as "dudes" it seems odd to refer to a single female as a "dude"
- vonmoltke 12y ago
  My wife and her female cousin-in-law do it to each other all the time. That said, I agree it's not appropriate for a job req and understand why it turns women off from applying.
s73v3r 12y ago
While it might not hold up as being against the law, it likely would deter many females from applying.
- glittershark 12y ago
  Referring to women as "females" probably won't help, either
  - s73v3r 12y ago
    Agreed.

sebular 12y ago

You're not wrong at all. Furthermore: > 2. Under 30 years old Is obviously age discrimination as well. Unlike some people, I'm under no illusions that tech is non-discriminatory, but it's still surprising and disappointing to see it stated so plainly on a job description. These people are idiots for leaving this document online now that they've been caught. I don't know the specifics of UK labour laws, but in the US its mere existence would be grounds for a lawsuit.

detaro 12y ago
They only need "Fast and accurate proficiency" in being under 30 years old ;) (so someone who just turned 30 is probably best, having the 30 years experience with being under 30)
andyjohnson0 12y ago
"The Equality Act 2010 makes it unlawful to discriminate against employees, job seekers and trainees because of their age." [1] [1] http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1841 http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1841
- vasilipupkin 12y ago
  Wait, UK only adopted this in 2010? Sorry, I am surprised by that
  - philh 12y ago
    Not necessarily. That Act might be an update to a previously-existing one that also forbade gender discrimination.
  - gaius 12y ago
    The 2010 Act just merges the laws from the 1970s (equal pay, race relations, etc) into a single law. It was an exercise in tidying up the statute books.
  - celticninja 12y ago

slgeorge 12y ago

Yeah you can't ask that. When you read the rest of the document it's clear the 'job definition' has been done by someone whose not a HR professional. It's probably a tech or developer whose inexperienced. The only thing I'll say in defense of it is that this isn't as unusual as you might expect - even if they don't write it a lot of people probably use heuristics like this, unfortunately!

mercurial 12y ago
> by someone whose not a HR professional No need to require HR skills when basic English proficiency is lacking. What does "work in a team of all current developers" even means? Don't get me started on "Conscientious and committed to a certain task where they decided to commit themselves", that's positively Shakespearian. Was this written by a real person using Google Translate, or by a bot? Oh, and what the hell is a "MagicPitch"?

s73v3r 12y ago

Dude can sometimes be used to refer to people of both genders. Although in a professional job posting, there are dozens of words that would be more explicitly gender-neutral and a better choice.